Please Vote! S12 Hart Nominees

Pretty sure he just opened up the GP and was like, "yup, that's a third."

In the future, to avoid subjectivity, you may want to consider grabbing win rates for each player on a line, averaging that to get the strength of the line, and then averaging that across all games played.

Also, given that this is a regular season award, you may want to consider actually looking at the most common players ppl played with at that time.

Great job though! Certainly happy that these awards are being done the right way and can't wait to see the end result if and when they're actually published =)

 

I play who they put in front of me and not all 3rd lines are created equal, Denver (can't wait for Part 4)! I just think the 3 linemates nominated are impossible to vote on if you don't actually watch the games. Like Coach saying the Professor is most valuable to Seattle because his offensive numbers and defensive numbers are great compared to his peers. If you watched our games you would know we work as a 5 man unit that runs through the middle to outside and everyone gets puck touches, so we don't really have an MVP since we just try to scheme to win games using all 5 guys putting them in the best possible situation to succeed! Win or lose we still have fun and I wouldn't trade any of my linemates or teammates from this past season. We didn't work the puck low too much and force middle like most of the league. We worked a low to high to low game getting our defense involved and created around +200 min of TOA this season even though you think we rag in our d zone hehe (last time I checked the "A" stands for attack). Also, individually to your point of me not going up against these other forwards, I sacrifice my offensive numbers for defense which allows my wingers to play free and defense to get involved in the offense. I'm by no means vouching for myself because those of you who know me know I couldn't care less about awards or recognition. I just want to point out that your way of thinking is flawed and it doesn't make much sense to me. Your statistics only tell a small portion of the story... Which goes back to my point, this award is hard enough to vote on in general because it is based on value requiring you to actually watch games - it is even harder now that the vote is really who is most valuable to a line when numbers are similar because they play together. Like I said earlier, REAP is crushing SirGab and Fog is crushing Lxziee which shows the value on those lines to the voting people isn't close at all. If the Professor and I were both up for nomination as you have now created the precedent of "duos" and it was 23-2 in votes to either side it would be invalid because the value is equal if you actually watch the games. So now that we are here, maybe make a "duo MVP" (while we are at it, maybe a big 3?) instead of an MVP because I'm sure all of these liney nominees would say they wouldn't have the same success if the other player wasn't there.

 

Mb i misunderstood. But still then you said seb carried the 3rd line, but he didn't played on the 3rd neither, but w/e

 

While I do appreciate some people voting for me, I voted for LaF and could've given it to Reap too.

One thing though, is that I would've included one of the brothers on Seattle. I mean no offense, but remove one of them from their line-up and I'm really curious what happens to that team. In the end of the day, SOS stats are highly subjective and some in there are just wrong but that's for another day. Playoffs / Non-Playoffs can tell a story but in fact when you look at it you could've played a team in your division 2 or 3 times that ended up putting them out of the playoffs and some people will read into it that those were weaker games than a playoffs team 2nd or 3rd line cause they didn't make the playoffs afterall. In the end, you play what's in front of you.

That being said Lazie and I didn't play a lot of games with Cyr in the regular season, never played with Nation and played once with Slick. Speaking of Lazie, if you wanna give me votes, give some to him too cause it was a team work.

 

I agree with the fact that one of the Merana brothers should be there instead of one of the Colorado west line players. The number of 1st/2nd/3rd lines played can also be different if someone else wouldve of done stats for this awards/theses players.

At the end of the day its just virtual hockey league awards... Theres always subjects to argue about.

WK will get his shot to Selke and Professor will get his shot for Norris, they are no brainers for thoses awards imo.

 

HEADLINE: Money Heist Trio Sweep S12 Awards

 

I looked back and re-read. I can see how you thought I was talking about LaFleur with the word “who” right after.

 

Lol, if I knew how to post my sheet here I would and like I said, there was a vote to trim my original list, I had 12 people.

Also, who cares if they are linemates. You can't say Reap/SirGab, Senko/Diamond, Fog/Lxziee don't deserve a nomination just because they played with each other. They all played a significant role in helping each other and their team put together a great season.

There's a reason I looked up each individual's stats versus different types on lines too. You can see how productive one linemate was compared to the other.

I agree we should have added WK or Merana to this public vote, but in the end, 1 person wins, can't make everyone happy.

Also, I respect that you are promoting players from a team you were "supposed" to beat in the playoffs but please stop seeking attention and tone down that ego of yours lol. I understand you're salty because your other committee has been replaced but I asked you to join us. You then decided to just ignore me then rant about your other committee being in control. No need to drown this thread with endless essays. So if you want to stop wasting hours of time thinking of arguments that only a handful of people have actually read, then hit me up and you can help us finish the other awards.

 

If there is a committee why is only one person controlling the nominations for each award? There has to be checks and balances. You basically just said AAli looked at all the Games, and determined if the line was a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd by himself. So SOS right then and there should be tossed out the window because you made it subjective. Nobody in this league can force other teams to 1st vs 1st. You play who lines up against you that night. And Professor just quoted the Criteria that the award committee should be following... Hart is awarded to the PLAYER, not players, deemed most valuable to their team. Based on that criteria, this list is invalid.

 

Coach, haven't you heard? This is the right way to do the awards

I mean why would you even want to spend time on actually using data outside of vanity stats and subjective inputs to include stats like wins relative to the rest of the team in order to figure out who contributed most to their teams success?

So glad they're in more capable hands now! Best of luck boys

 

You rewarded players with higher points, and did not follow the criteria of “player deemed most valuable to their team”. Points aren’t the only thing that makes someone valuable to their team. 3 duos Ali? The votes heavily favoring Reap and Fog tell you what you should have known to begin with. Yes SirGab and Lazie had great seasons but clearly they weren’t the most valuable to their team.

 

And yes I expected to win against Seattle, we were 1 in the West and had been all season, so not sure how that translates to having an ego. Y’all wanted to do the awards, the community wanted y’all to do the awards. If Prom wanted to do them this year, we would have been doing them still, but wasn’t my call. I was not interested in joining another committee. Still got to follow the criteria.

 

This is fun. Every season it's the same arguments with the same points and the same shit. "SOS is invalid because not all 3rd lines are the same" "Linemates dont deserve a nomination because one is always going to get more votes" it's all a bunch of shit. The true fact of the matter here is that there is a committee of people that took the time to go through and find all this shit so there is some sort of awards when in reality we dont need them at all because all it does is start stupid arguments where people either ignore facts or complain because their buddy didnt get in. Also Coach last I checked only one person can actually start a thread so saying that because Aali posted this one and MT the other means there's not really a committee is just dumb.

 

Memphis, Josh already said he was looking for Committee members to handle one of the awards with gathering stats and everything. Also he already said in this thread that anything wrong was Ali’s fault as he was the one who did this. Ali and LaFleur both just said, certain people should have been included over others. So my points are pretty valid.

 

You are a numbers guy right? We just found out that SOS was based on Ali looking at each game to determine if the player faced a 1st, 2nd, 3rd Line...? How does that tell you anything about SOS, when lines could be mixed. 1st Line forwards playing with 2nd or 3rd line defense, is that considered 1st, 2nd, or 3rd line?

 

SOS was not based on that because I can tell you for a fact that I helped Aali get the SOS and that chart I replied with earlier was the data. The actual vs line stats I had nothing to do with and that I would agree is very subjective but the SOS and SOV stuff I calculated and Aali used as the first SOS row in his info for each person was done by totaling up the W-L-OTLs of every player that player played this szn then finding the winning percentage from that. Strength of Vicotry (SOV) shows more in my opinion then SOS because it's the combined record of opponents you beat. Generally speaking better opponent records means tougher games which means they should perform as well but Reap Gab and Laf destroyed that constantly playing tough games and beating tough lines more then the rest of the herd. When the numbers show those guys being an easy 10 points higher then the next guy (Seb) and 30+ above the ones below him then it's no contest.

If you want some context my SOS was a .591 because either people threw top lines against me or I placed myself on those games so I wouldnt have to deal with people dodging and needing ECUs at the last second. So if guys like Reap, Gab and Laf are all having SOS stats that are close to mine that says a lot. Lets face it people see me in a lineup and they think it's an easy win so they swap the top lines in or had them scheduled there to begin with and when top players are playing a schedule similar to a 3rd liner that says a lot.

 

No matter how or which you do this, there will always be people that complain. It’s a lose-lose situation. With that being said, I think it’s clear most people believe Lafleur deserves it, so even if you swap people out and put others in, I think Lafleur still gets the majority of votes. So you’re arguing for people who wouldnt have won it anyway. Being nominated for the hart doesnt mean players who had great seasons aren’t being recognized. i.e. everyone talking about the merena brothers and others being deserving is recognizing the great season they had! There’s lots of players you could make arguments for, it’s impossible to nominate everyone!

 

Thanks, Class. All I'm saying is I don't agree with the precedent being set that there are 3 duos of linemates in there. Makes it really hard to decide who was most valuable to that team and even harder to decide who was most valuable to that line. Denver definitely had a great season and is deserving, but maybe the people think the duos are strange and voted for the only lone wolf in there. FYI - my thoughts have been coming from a voter, not a player.

 

He is also the only player nominated that is not competing for votes with a linemate... which is the argument. Two players on the same team can’t be “most valuable to their team” it’s one player or the other, to avoid making people choose. Choosing one gives others like Professor Merana a chance to receive votes.

 

To make it absolutely perfect, that would take hours and hours just to gather stats for only 1 player.
Imagine doing it for 15 different players when we all know the majority of people just vote for their friends anyway