The Forfeit Problem

Discussion in 'E-Sports Hockey League' started by Nuge, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. Nuge

    Nuge SmithZz

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    The Forfeit Rule:

    IF a team forfeits 25% of their games in this event, EVERY PLAYER listed on the roster will be issued an LGHL BAN which will prevent these players from participating in future events and remove them from current events and leagues until the ban expires or the fine is paid in full. Also, every win this team has will be overturned to a 1-0 regulation loss.

    What this means:

    The rule doesn't cover the people who caused the forfeits, built the roster that ended up failing, or the guys that bailed on their teammates because of 1 or 2 bad weeks. It covers the people that they decided to add to their roster, give ownership to, just to leave the roster themselves to avoid punishment. The people getting punished for the FFs are people who are just taking bans for friends, because those friends got shit on a few too many times by good players. Doesn't seem fair that the whole league boils down to forfeits and no one actually has to take the blame.

    @LG McDonald @Tris10 @ShortyxLOSE


    Examples of teams bailing:

    1. True North:

    [​IMG]

    They had their whole roster leave/removed, leaving just @Quacker93 and @JohnnyHockey31. This is a team that played a few weeks, won 7 games, and those games will all be changed to FF Losses, affecting the standings, but only these 2 random guys will be punished for it.

    Also Fun Fact, these same 2 guys gave free wins to @Wrxsto and @Niixps in LGUHL 2 years ago. What great friends:[​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    2. Yerrrrr
    [​IMG]

    Again, the people who made the team the shitshow it became escape unpunished while 2 random guys @Ix Frenchy I44I and @Saquon take the blame, at least in this case Saquon actually seems to have played some games.

    3. Rated R

    The most successful example of a team bailing, because someone who they left behind actually decided to put together a roster of CHLers so FFs wouldnt occur, but still just as scummy.

    [​IMG]

    4. Lights Out
    [​IMG]

    After forfeiting the entirety of a week, the entire roster left and was replaced by an entirely different roster. If this new roster FFs a couple games, they'll be the ones punished for the 25% rule because they other roster couldnt get their shit together.




    There may be even more teams who have done similar things, but I called out the most egregious examples. So that begs the question:

    Why even have rules when the work around is this simple?
     
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  2. l Doughty l

    l Doughty l Jeremy

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    The players who get screwed over and their owners bail or teammates bail on them shouldn’t be punished because they’re the last man standing, it should be the ones who quit to avoid the punishment.
     
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  3. LemeIin

    LemeIin Follow the Socials! : https://beacons.ai/lemelin

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    As much as I love the free entries to tournaments like Space Esport offers us, there’s definitely some downside to free tournaments like this. Obviously the forfeit issue being right at the centre of that. There’s just a weird mix of elite and casual teams that sign up. It’s almost in some cases like NHL teams playing Minor Hockey teams at times with these blowout scores. There are just way too many teams that are just not good enough to compete with the rest and then mix that in with the long season that we currently have. So it’s not a surprise that we already have several teams that have thrown in the towel. These “teams” sign up and are excited to play in these tournaments and quickly realize that they aren’t good enough to compete or find themselves in a deep hole. A good player on a team can also quit and create a trickledown effect on the rest of the team, so the punishment in a way may not be totally the whole rosters fault. So in a way I can understand why some teams quit because losing isn’t fun. At the end of the day we play Chel for fun. Coming to play Chel for these teams basically ends up being like a chore after a while. I too wouldn’t be too keened / motivated to continue playing if my team kept losing game after game, with negativity pilling on, basically being out of the playoff hunt. So in my opinion there needs to be that separation between the elite and casual teams to truly grow the game wether that’s simply making a casual and competitive division or something of that nature. We are in week 4 and some nights half the teams we are supposed to play don’t even show up... and that’s only going to get worse as the season progresses. That’s just my opinion on the matter and obviously if we continue like this, forfeits will just be a normality and in a way that’s ok, but that’s the sacrifice we make to be able to have these free entry tournaments
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
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  4. Ix Lutvi xI

    Ix Lutvi xI Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more they should make it a pay to enter tournament like $50 a team or something so you can separate the more dedicated teams and build the prize pool. There should still be free tournaments like the opening weekend that kicked off the start of NHL 20.
     
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  5. l Doughty l

    l Doughty l Jeremy

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    I agree, buy in tournaments would 100% ensure that the competition would be at its best. No team that has little to no chance of competing is going to spend money to buy in, I understand on LG’s end the free tournaments to publicize the site to its maximum potential while gaining traction at the same time, also so more players become informed about the virtual hockey scene, but there are ways to compromise on both. Personally, my ESHL team had 3 forfeit wins last night and that’s just something that shouldn’t happen in my opinion, we want the games to be fun and the competition to be at its highest each night of ESHL. These forfeits vs teams that everyone plays at least once on their schedule are handing teams free win (s), that can have a big impact on the standings, limiting forfeits is the best thing we can possibly do. Seasons ago when each team had to buy in for 50 dollars the competition was fun and close even though they were short tournaments, if we can incorporate that into these long season tournaments, ESHL would be at its peak.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
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  6. Mxckie

    Mxckie Banana League Hero

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    I actually asked Shorty about this last night after True North forfeited to us and their whole roster bailed. Even if you leave the team, you still get the ban is how it was explained to me.
     
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  7. Nuge

    Nuge SmithZz

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    Hopefully this is true, I'm assuming teams wouldnt go through the trouble of finding idiots to fill their owner/gm position if they thought they were getting banned anyways
     
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  8. Doitlive23

    Doitlive23 Well-Known Member

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    If people leave your roster after you used a roster sub on them and then abandon your team you should be able to bring the person you subbed out of the roster back. Happened to us we had to move a couple of our Utils due to avail issues and the ones we brought in played one game and quit now were out those guys and we can't (to my knowledge) bring the guys we subbed out back.
     
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  9. Sokastr7

    Sokastr7 Well-Known Member

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    The rules are the rules. IF someone found a way to circumvent the rules then better rules need to be made. Can't go moving the goal posts mid game and punish people who didn't technically break any rules. Stick to the letter of the law and learn from it moving forward.
     
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  10. I GetBusy I

    I GetBusy I Well-Known Member

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    Imagine catching a ban trying to help a team out because the rostered players are refusing to play. Unjustifiable.
     
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  11. JerseyDevils 27

    JerseyDevils 27 Well-Known Member

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    I came here to say one thing:

    True North is a bunch of trash. (except for Petey) <3
     
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  12. RGDeded

    RGDeded Well-Known Member

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    @Nuge defending Rated R here myself and a few others joined to help the team out. When the options came down to getting banned or taking over the team I took over the team. Yes last night i assembled whoever i could find to prevent 5 ff when we only have 7 left but that was only because we all had LG. I have since replaced those guys with what i hope can be a semi competitive lineup.

    The issue is when you join a sinking ship to help out you just put yourself at risk and ultimately are the ones that will pay the price. The bans need to be to anybody who leaves the team, misses games etc similar to the strike system and the ban starts immediately not the following season. Everyone should be aware of the caliber of teams that play in this tournament and if u dont think you can win it dont play in it or use it as a platform to improve your game.
     
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  13. LemeIin

    LemeIin Follow the Socials! : https://beacons.ai/lemelin

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    Teams are just naive, they just hear free tournament and signup anyways. Some players come from outside of LG as well and don’t know about the competition and or really care about a 3 season ban. If you look back at past standings, there’s always around 10 teams that quit. A prime example of that is the Nordiques team. Last season they played like 5 games and quit on the 2nd day of the tournament. Now this season they signed up again and quit again week 1. How were they allowed to come back this season?
     
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  14. PeteyMaCx11

    PeteyMaCx11 555

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    Not really sure what I could have done. The team folded I’m not management I signed up as a utility.
     
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  15. LemeIin

    LemeIin Follow the Socials! : https://beacons.ai/lemelin

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    My dream scenario is that we take the top 24 teams, and then make a 3 week season that everyone players each other once. This would result in competitive games every game. And that would be the competitive division, and if many other teams wanted to play, we make an open division. No one wants to play a team and win 10-0 nor do those teams want to get smashed 10-0. You destroy these teams and they quit and you’re left sitting there half hour, hour... so on waiting for your next game because teams like that quit and leave you with a handful of FF every night.
     
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  16. RGDeded

    RGDeded Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like the old format
     
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  17. LemeIin

    LemeIin Follow the Socials! : https://beacons.ai/lemelin

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    To me it just makes sense, to grow the game you need to make it exciting and competitive. Instead of watering it down, you need to make it a quality league. So when people do watch the competitive division they strive to compete in it. That’s what brought me to play ESHL, the competitive aspect when they had that format. Now it feels like just playing club matching up with random CHL teams and being forced to destroy them. Like we aren’t growing the game by doing that. Those guys just flushed the game down the toilet. Only time ESHL gets really fun, is when the playoff starts, because it’s just too easy to make it to the postseason for some teams. It should be a fight for everybody to make it exciting
     
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  18. Dr Yargage

    Dr Yargage Well-Known Member

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    I mentioned the issue with this rule before the season started and after week1 and week2.

    If a team folds. Everyone who has been on the roster that season should get a ban.

    It would make people think twice about joining teams before the season.

    It would make people who quit get punished instead of rewarded.

    It would let people coming onto a failing team late in the season know what they are getting in to.

    This should of been addressed before the season started.
     
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  19. Eamonn

    Eamonn Well-Known Member

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    Should add in a rule that if you leave your team you aren't allowed to play the following season.

    Cap the team signup at like 32 or so (16-24 is too few, there's a decent chunk of teams that can at least compete with the top teams).

    Everyone plays each other once. 7 weeks is crazy long and doesn't make sense to me. 3-5 weeks would be perfect.
     
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  20. Devin Decibel

    Devin Decibel Well-Known Member

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    Would you accept less prize pool for less games?

    IF elite teams are truly bored and pissed everytime they have an easy game, maybe it is a sign the season is too long...

    Anyway, good post nuge. hope ppl get looked at.

    Sidenote: @LemeIin If you do not want to play against weaker teams, you know what to do next matchup. I heard you get 25% to play with ;)
     
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