An AHL Management Tale

Quick update for everyone a recent Action Center ruling.

The Gulls were found in violation of an illegal roster as per Article 4 Section 5.2 of the Constitution, over the limit of 17 players. They had this illegal roster for a week and a half of games which results in the games being reset and replays issued. The games are to be replayed as we did away with the straight overturning of games for illegal rosters.

5.2 : Invalid Roster

An invalid roster is described as:
- Having more than the allotted 17 Players on the active roster
- Being over the salary cap
- Having more than the allotted 9 forwards, 6 defense, and 2 goalies

Punishment for non-compliance: Will result in the games won while the roster was invalid to be replayed, unless it is determined the team intentional had an invalid roster to result in a replayed game.


It has been brought to the attention of Staff that the Gulls Management are trying to circumvent this ruling by messaging teams asking them to keep the original results. This will not happen as all game results are currently being reset to 0-0, and if the game is not replayed the game result will remain at 0-0. If we find that the results are being changed without an actual game being played further punishments will be issued.

There were several complaints filed about this issue and the BoG took great care and time in reviewing all of the evidence involved in the matter before issuing a ruling. Both Brodie and myself fully support the ruling as it is a text book invalid roster situation. A one game suspension was issued as we took into consideration the lack of experience that this management group has while comparing it to previous examples. The most drastic of the previous examples was Providence two seasons ago in which the entire management group was removed after week one and all 9 games were overturned to a 1-0 loss.


The Gulls have been directed to communicate with the management of the following teams to setup a reschedule date and time.

Week 3:
Monday at 9:30 @ Springfield Falcons
Wednesday at 9:30 @ San Jose Barracuda
Wednesday at 10:30 vs. Stockton Heat
Thursday at 9:30 @ San Antonio Rampage

Week 4:
Sunday at 9:30 vs. Ontario Reign
Sunday at 10:30 @ Texas Stars
Monday at 9:30 vs. San Antonio Rampage
Monday at 10:30 vs. San Jose Barracuda
Tuesday at 9:30 @ Stockton Heat


Did I miss something?
@GimmixPwns

 

In case you missed it ^

 

Thanks Crass. Our fellow members can read, and they understand the issue.

So far, you are the only GM to request a replay. You stand alone. I'll enjoy these games

 

^^^^^^

 

"It has been brought to the attention of Staff that the Gulls Management are trying to circumvent this ruling by messaging teams asking them to keep the original results. This will not happen as all game results are currently being reset to 0-0, and if the game is not replayed the game result will remain at 0-0. If we find that the results are being changed without an actual game being played further punishments will be issued." -Tiddus


Obviously you struggle with reading @GimmixPwns.

 

What a Crasshole!

 

Class move right there, very few can make crass not be the biggest villain =P

 

This is interesting. Early on in talks about this issue I made it clear I would be requesting this from GMs. I in fact outlined it as my next step. At no point was any mention made of it being an issue.

I will ask how Crass, a bystander to this situation, has a copy of this message and I do not? @Tiddus

 

So we are going to throw out more punishments if we decide to leave the game as it stood, even if we believe the rule broken had no effect on the outcome of the games in question?

 

Well if this wasn't posted in the AHL management forums then one of two things likely happened:

1) Tiddus/League Staff are mad/upset about this thread and the comments made, and sent a message to all of the opposing GM's for the games informing them about not playing and the leagues stance.

2) Someone complained they were getting shit about asking for the games to be replayed, while shockingly (in a great way) a majority of opposing GMs were going to do the classy thing. This then made the league force all games to be played to protect the complaining player.

I would most likely go with #2

 

If that quote is legit then most likely, obviously it says if the game isn't replayed it will remain 0-0. Now this would because of the wording mean you couldn't even forfeit the games to them, again there is no sort of opposing for the players/management voice here due to a lack of a three part system anymore.

The question not answered here is do the exact line ups have to replay the games? What about trades made after the games, or people who have quit? If anyone could play doesn't that create an unfair advantage in the points race or award race? A lot of things not answered here which really has the chance to effect the league as a whole.

 

It is a difficult situation. it is meant to be the same lines. I have indeed moved players since. If the league allows GMs to make their choice in replaying games this will have no affect since both us and Stockton still carry the same players from the games we played.

I still like how Crass has messages about my ruling that I don't. Who do you have to blow around here - oh wait I'll hold onto these morals nevermind.

 

So now we have a whole additional level of potential shit on this situation. With players changing teams here why should they show up or care about playing for their old team? It could potentially hurt their new team if San Deigo wins, or whom ever you are facing wins.

 

Just wait for official word from the league. Theres no point in speculating. Also, I doubt the league would FORCE us to replay the games, as its probably not a good idea to piss off what few original management is left in the AHL.

 

Speaking from experience here, we had a similar situation in Chicago...NHL sent a player down, I didn't see it, invalid roster. ....we had since either traded or had players from that game called up. We were unable to use any player not currently on our roster for that game and forced to use ECUs to fill missing spots. Sadly, that is probably going to be what you will have to do. I completely disagree with the way this matter has been handled by the league from the information I have, but there's no use fighting it. Just bend over and take it like a man. It will only make future seasons as management that much easier for you

 

They are indeed forcing us to replay games.

 

I will never be a part of management again lol. It's a shame for my team, the guys who either need to find a whole lot of extra time in their days, or succumb to 1-0 forfeit losses for what is truly a poor reason.

 

I was kind of being semi-sarcastic when I said that...lol...with the way this had been handled, I don't blame you one bit for not doing it again....it takes a special person to enjoy all the BS we have to put up with, and is also why quality GMs such as yourself are not willing to do it. One thing that I think should change in the offseason is when the NHL sends a player down to a full AHL roster, is that the player is placed on TC, thus never having this problem again

 

I wasn't going to butt in, but I guess i'll throw in my 2 cents... and @Daggermouth6911 i'll start with you.

Yes there is, and you'll find out somewhere in one of the next quotes.

No sir, that is called "Filling for Appeal", after someone "Filled a Complaint" on Rockford. 2 Different things.

Again, another wrong statement... Your Management, even your NHL Owner, a select few Lehigh Valley players were running their mouths in the shoutbox. They fired the shots, he simply retaliated.... He did what anyone would do when attacked by one or more people.... defend himself.

First off, @DarthForsberg didn't assemble the Team... @Sevv09 did. @stelene 7 was the "Original" GM of the Rockford IceHogs, Sevv was his AGM. 24 Hours before the bidding, Stelene quit due to work scheduling changes. Sevv then took over as GM duties, and asked Darth to be his AGM minutes before bidding. Darth was told that all he had to do, was hold the title of AGM, and his play his "Scheduled Games"... nothing more. At the end of Week 1, Sevv decied to quit... due to getting screwed by the League out of a Compensation Claim from Hartford who did a 3 for 3 Trade with Rockford (which I was a part of)... and the 2 Defense that arrived in Rockford with me (don't remember the 2 fucktards names) decided to quit. So Darth was left all alone, short 3 players.

That's when @sicka moose came in & took AGM to help out Darth. They then asked me to if I could help (due to my past Management experiences) a little with the Games i'm in for pics & stats.... that lead to me being given the Captain/2nd AGM Status of Rockford. After week 3, I received a promotion at work, which my schedule hours changed... so I was forced sadly with retirement. Darth & sicka talked me into staying... even though I was only available now for 2 Games a Week (both Sundays). Played Week 4, and decided to step away & Quit officially, cause it was not worth taking up 4.750M of their Salary for just 2 Games, there's also some personal / real life situation that are going on in my life right now (which don't need to be discussed) which made it the deciding factor in my decision.

That, is what made Darth step down as well. His Availability wasn't the greatest either... and he did not have much time to take care of the Team due to that. (work, wife & other commitments). People that cant understand that... must not have much of a life, or have it a bit more simple than others. We play the hands we are dealt, and deal with them. We both felt bad in leaving, but before we both made our decision, we had a talk with sicka... he assured us that he would be fine, and even HE understood the situation, and was able to accept it.


Now, that i've cleared things up for you... you can stop making assumptions & know the facts. As for the forfeit.. I wasn't there or was involved in it. I just know of what I was told by BOG's. Am I ok with it? Nothing I say or do will change the fact that it happened. Would I be pissed had the roles been reversed? Of course I would, who wouldn't? Would I still cry and whine about it 2 weeks later? LOL, no... it's called "put it passed you and move on." I'm sure there's matters a tad more serious than 1 stupid forfeit.


Sooooo... time for some more quoting, shall we?

Damn fucking right sir, never seen so many clusterfucks in 1 Season.... somewhat reminds of this other league once that had a really bad Season & everything seemed to go to shits afterwards. Even though 90% of the problems weren't "Game/Servers" problems... but yeah, it's still happened & this is still a shitty Season!

So, the reasoning on that complaint was just based on what? The Roster being at 18 Players (1 over the limit)? Cause when it was brought to my attention, which I then told that person (that will remain nameless): "Who cares, they are still cap compliant & 1 Person is on IR". That being said... The evidence that was brought to attention of Staff did state

Yes, this does look like San Diego is in trouble for this... BUT, what was not brought to attention was

So, this basically means that San Diego's Roster would of been at 17, no? Hmmm... wondering if this was overlooked... or simply "swept under the rug"? Hop this helps you out somehow @GimmixPwns

Not quite sure where you have been for the past 5-6 Weeks sir.... but a SHITLOAD of people have been leaving & quitting already (myself included). Some XB1 Players whom have quit, also signed up for the new PSN League. Hopefully their Season will be better there.

Kirito x58... you sexy beast... I respect you & love you sir (no homo lol). I'm not defending what was once my Team, but this can also happen to anyone else. You know that LG is not the only League that exists, or that some people have lives, jobs or other commitments. I don't remember exactly who all were "Scheduled" for that Game by Rockford... But I do know that lots of Players have limited availabilits & time restraints due to those other commitments. I do know that @Prophets0fRage had a "Other League" Game he had to attend, and I also know no ECU's were available to play in his Place (for LG). So when the 15 Minute Mark passed, his other Game was starting in less 20 minutes. I'm not using that as an excuse... but they wouldn't of waited longer, cause then we would of been the ones Forfeitng. It's happened, it will always... let's group hug in the shower & move on.

I think that's the nicest thing I've heard people call him...

Oh please, let me answer this one Maybe he received this info, from the same person who was telling him who ALL his opponents "Confirmed" Lines were in advance. Oops, did that info just slip out? Will someone be in trouble? Stay Tuned, don't change the @LeafyTV channel!

The answer to that question is: 3) look at my previous "quote", the answer is in there somewhere.


And now... for the man of the hour... Mr @Coach Crass

You sure know how to make some frien..... I mean enemies sir. Keep it up, eventually no one will ever want to deal with you. Then you'll probably disappear somewhere, or reappear under another Tag someday.... or whatever!


Well, I feel as I have typed enough for now. Man, the free time I have when i'm not playing in Leagues... the People I talk to (some new that I had never talked to before)... The stuff I learn lol, quite entertaining. Anywho... see y'all in 2 Season once my ban expires.


PS... I made a copy of this... In case it gets deleted, just cause it took me a long time to type this & piece it all together... Besides, everyone loves juicy stories.

Y'all Have a Nice Day Now, Sebby Out!!

​

 

I'm going to chime in here AS a PLAYER ...
@MCDONALD l19l @Tiddus @kpy86 @LeafyTV @xX Z3NO Xx (only included staff that may have been involved since last season)

Rule in question:
5.2 : Invalid Roster

An invalid roster is described as:
- Having more than the allotted 17 Players on the active roster
- Being over the salary cap
- Having more than the allotted 9 forwards, 6 defense, and 2 goalies

Punishment for non-compliance: Will result in the games won while the roster was invalid to be replayed, unless it is determined the team intentional had an invalid roster to result in a replayed game.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This has been an issue known about for at least the previous season. I requested that an effort be made to get back to having a PA on board because I personally do not have the time to fight this battle of the league mishandling this, although most of this involves management which wouldn't fall under a PA representative anyways.

1. First, the rule is pretty black and white, if you have an invalid roster the league does have the right to either overturn the outcome of the game or have it replayed - PERIOD (meaning nothing more, nothing less).

It has been Brodies goals to not have the league interfere with the outcome of games, yet this rule is too generalized and should only apply if a player in question is actually in the game. So in this case, the player sent down. If an illegal player, or player in question is not directly involved in a game the outcome of the game should NOT be affected. In turn a penalty to the management should be given, not penalizing all the players who did nothing to break rules. As it stands, players are being punished along with management and in some cases, the management doesn't get punish if they were not in those games.

2. There seems to be an inconsistency here with an additional penalty. In this case and per some from last season, there was an added game suspension to the management? No where's in this black and white rule (see above) does it state "a suspension might be given". When you have a rule that states the violation and a set of penalties for committing it, you can not "add" more to it whenever you feel like it.

This season, there were penalties handed out for this violation in the NHL also, in the NHL cases, no game suspensions were given to the management, yet here we see AHL management getting a game suspension. This is NOT in the rule as punishment so unless there is another violation the game suspensions need to be granted an appeal & any game that was affected by this judgement get replayed and allow those management to play in those games.

3. Player stats being taken away for games overturned. AGAIN, nothing in the rule that states player stats are to be removed in overturned games, for a matter of fact, its nowhere in the Constitution (unless it was edited in this season somewhere small) does it state players stats are to be removed, unless the game is obviously replayed, then they will change. The only place close saying something like this is for taking a forfeit win, in which the rules state not to put player stats in, which is not the same as removing them and by wording is not applicable to games being overturned into a forfeit win, ONLY games that are to be originally a forfeit.

So in these cases, the site allows the game final to be changed without removing & punishing player stats.


Summery;
- The league needs to not waste time and correct this to apply only to games where the illegal player factors in.
- Add a penalty to management directly in a player wasn't involved in a game for the original punishments would apply.
- Stop adding penalties to violations unless its written as an option or stated that punishment is at the BOG's discretion. Like in this case, black and white, "Violation = Punishment", nothing more, nothing less.
- Stop taking stats away from players, they did not break any rules. If the game is to be replayed or if an illegal player influenced the game/stats, then its obvious the stats are tainted, but if a valid roster played the league has no right to violate players like this.
- We pride ourselves on "Virtual Careers" and because of this those careers are tainted. If staff were truly stand-up people, the would see their errs and go back in seasons and correct these player's stats till the point they can find a valid rule that stated player stats could be removed. I'm not sure I'm seriously looking for this to be done, but trying to show the impact of continually making these bad decision after not heading the warnings and continuing with blinders "because that's what we've been doing".

#RaiseAwareness #NeverTooLate #Wrong2Right