Digging in the Crates: Primer Edition

Discussion in 'Leaguegaming American Hockey League (LGAHL)' started by Waxibono, Jul 15, 2018.

  1. TripAcez

    TripAcez Aye Stop De Puck

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Ratings:
    +77 / 2 / -7
    Especially whe we chat on ur stream during the game LOL
     
    Offline
    Tripacez18
  2. bl1zz72

    bl1zz72 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    335
    Discord:
    bl1zz72#8459
    Trophy Points:
    1,191
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Ratings:
    +174 / 13 / -9
    your own management said you were a bad goalie? yet you wanna win for the other guys on your team, INCLUDING that management? normally if management calls you a bad goalie, you're either heading down or getting dealt. I can't even wrap my head around that... kudos to you for trying to shut them up however.
     
    No Streaming Account
  3. VeNOM3O99

    VeNOM3O99 Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goalie

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    396
    Trophy Points:
    531
    Location:
    Montreal, QC
    Ratings:
    +333 / 29 / -32
    Umh... Re-read what I said. Key words are: "my management WAS TOLD I was bad"

    Thankfully they didn't just look at stats like everyone else.
     
    Offline
    VeNOM3099
  4. bl1zz72

    bl1zz72 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    335
    Discord:
    bl1zz72#8459
    Trophy Points:
    1,191
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Ratings:
    +174 / 13 / -9
    LMAO my bad.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    No Streaming Account
  5. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    562
    Discord:
    BottomlessPit#0959
    Trophy Points:
    791
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ratings:
    +255 / 15 / -9
    ...when I came back to LGHL I thought I wasn't going to be doing much in terms of posting, but this is one discussion I do appreciate and will get involved with. That being said I'm likely going to say things that gets people on every side upset...or just get everyone upset. lol

    There's a lot of things being said from different sides that I have agreed with at some time or another. However, here's a few things I disagree with:

    1. some shots cannot be stopped -> Yes they can. If an AI G can do it, or another human G can....then you can too.
    2. G value, and stats depend on the people in front of you -> to some extent yes. but no. As a G, you have FULL control of what your stat results will be. Do you mean them to turn out the way they do most of the time? No, hardly ever. But there is always something you could have done to change the outcome. Could the skaters have helped? Hell yeah. But at the end of the day. It's YOUR job. And YOU can stop the puck 100% of the time. Does EAids exist? Hell yeah. But they are 100% stoppable....just sometimes there's only 1 way to stop those EAids turds. Being able to stop ALL of this is what makes a G ELITE.
    3. Goalie value is determined just by stats -> No, no, and definitely no. A G, like any other player can influence a line, a team like any other Captain can. This is something NO stat can tell you in any form. However, your stats and more so your popularity, will be a reflection of a combination of your leadership, personality & success.
    4. The only thing that matters with a G is W's. Mostly yes, but still no. If you were stellar and lately you're being saved by goal support. Or you're winning everything but you're an asshole. ...either of these will get you traded. Last season I was on Stockton, slipping and finally got my confidence back but presented it to @KrawcH v2 as being drunk apparently (the experience was quite funny). Got traded and moved up to the Blues. PHJ ...well, I don't need to finish that story. I n the meantime I crumbled in the NHL facing mission impossible to get the Blues into playoffs with a max of maybe 5 losses in 19 games after they had 80 trades. We started ok for 1 or 2 weeks then crumbled.
    5. Breakaways are 50/50. No. If you watch any real G in PK's or shootouts....you will see there's a skill and science to it. The awesome G's we all know have a much better chance of coming out on top against the most skilled skaters. The same is true in NHL 18. I'm even itching to give a secret away, but I can't for the benefit of my team (and teams in future).

    Well, with all that being said....I'm just awaiting all the hate mongers replies. These are just my opinion...and where I set the bar when I play. @Waxibono good work on the posts even if I do/don't agree with them. Definitely getting attention well deserved. You've caused me to create a poll of my own I'm curious how the G community (and LGHL as a whole) will respond given all this Goalie attention this season. Keep it up.

    Bp
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    Offline
    Bottomless_Pit
  6. KrawcH x

    KrawcH x Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Trophy Points:
    4,221
    Location:
    Canada
    Ratings:
    +593 / 18 / -20
    I love you Joe. You’re a hard working, good team guy and a good goalie.
     
    Offline
    krawch61
  7. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    562
    Discord:
    BottomlessPit#0959
    Trophy Points:
    791
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ratings:
    +255 / 15 / -9
    You're a good Owner @KrawcH v2 and stellar fwd. Wish I didn't sound drunk that day. Lol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
    Offline
    Bottomless_Pit
  8. VeNOM3O99

    VeNOM3O99 Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goalie

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    396
    Trophy Points:
    531
    Location:
    Montreal, QC
    Ratings:
    +333 / 29 / -32
    *sigh*....

    1. Except we're not in control of what save animation we get. Only what position we're in. If this was NHL 14, then I would agree with you, because back then if you were in position, you made the save, period. Since next-gen (current gen now, I guess), the devs philosophy on goaltending is "goalies gotta get sniped", that if the goalies are TOO good at making saves like they used to, teams playing at high levels (IE, the E-sport teams) would end up having 0-0 or 1-0 games all the time and that would be "boring". I've got plenty of clips where I was in perfect position, but animation I get was completely wrong.

    2. Again, you are NOT fully in control of what you do as a goalie, because you dont' control your limbs and so you're at the mercy of what the game gives you as a save animation. Do we sometimes get saved by a good animation that allows us to make a save we really shouldn't have? Yes. At the same time, how many times have I hit the RS to make a desperation save on an open one-timer only to have the goalie simply drop down immediately and tuck his limbs close to his body. RS = Desperation saves (limb based) last time I checked the game's instructions. Why did I get a blocking (butterfly) type save which is tied to the Left Trigger? How is that in a human goalie's CONTROL?

    3. I agree that it shouldn't be what determines a goalie's value in this league, but sadly that's not always the case. A lot of goalies will get looked over simply because at first glance, their stats are not that great. At the same time, sometimes a goalie with GOOD stats can get picked up by a mediocre team thinking that's all there is to it to make your team a winner.

    4. I don't know what was the original point of this, but if you want a comparison, in s25 I got picked up in the last 2 weeks by the Armada, who had completely revamped their team. I went 11-1-0 with a 87.5 SV% and a 1.56 GAA. I never held any fantasies that it was all me. If my team wasn't as good as it was, I would've probably had worse stats than I did. The following season, I got picked up by Ontario Reign who ended having all kinds of issues with defense and offense. It got so bad that the following 2 seasons I switched to D. I came back to G in s28 with Syracusse and was offered a spot as AGM... That was a mistake. I had no idea what I was doing and my then GM was almost never there to teach me anything. Team imploded early on, no one wanted to play for the GM, everything was disorganized. It was a nightmare. I took a break the following season and came back this season with no expectations whatsoever. So I was really glad when the Rockets picked me up. We've had a very up and down season so far, but thankfully our management and the players have been great to work with. Especially since everyone on the team understands how limited the goalies is in what he can do sometimes. If I was on a team where people thought like you, i'd probably want to commit seppuku...

    5. On average, in the real NHL, goalies SV% on a shootout is roughly about 50% across the entire league. If that's the case in LG, then it's perfect. However, I think that if the stats were available, it would probably be something like 35-40%. Lateral acceleration + gliding gives the shooter too much advantage one vs. the goalie. It's something that, hopefully, will finally be fixed for NHL 19. Still there's ways a goalie can have good success on a breakaway. It's just a little harder than it should be. In real life, I was always good against a lone shooter on a breakaway because I always let them make the first move. Once they committed it was a simple matter of putting a limb in the way of the shot. In this game, you can't really allow them to make the first move, because even if they commit, they can simply pull around and go the other way (especially if they enter "the glide"). Also reactions are difficult because of the input delay + online lag. So it becomes more of a game of the goalie being able to READ the player's intention and anticipate where he's going to go to make a save. In essence, you're pretty much making a guess. Very different than how an actual goalie makes a save on a breakaway in real life.

    With that said, I'll state again, I think a good goalie on bad team CAN make a difference, but he can't make the team win. I don't care how good a goalie is, but even if he stops 39 out of 40 shots, while his team only puts up 4 shots and no goals, his team lost 0-1. Stats might look great, but the Ls will pile up. And that's with a positive outlook. In most cases teams that can't contain the opponent's offense will get destroyed 12-0 and the opponent's goalie will be bored to tears and then the next day be 2nd Star of the day with a 5 shot shutout... Believe me, I know first hand.

    TL;DR - Goalies aren't completely useless, but they're not as effective as they should be. It's one of the most important (and difficult) positions in ice hockey, yet this game treats us like we're glorified cardboard cutouts with some pretty sizable holes punched into us. And yes... we're fucking weird.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
    • Winner Winner x 1
    Offline
    VeNOM3099
  9. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    562
    Discord:
    BottomlessPit#0959
    Trophy Points:
    791
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ratings:
    +255 / 15 / -9

    1 & 2. I'm going to say I believe it's still in full control. How? First positioning. If you're so worried about animations then your positioning is off. Second, while I agree we sometimes fuck up the animation, we should be in good enough position the animation we want will be used 90% of the time. I also believe the animation is a matter of the controller key combination being used + depends on the shot location & type being taken.

    I wouldn't mind if someone tells me how we all as Gs could stream showing our key presses to show the resulting animations for us all to improve. As a goalie community we need to find ways of improving our value in general.

    3. We agree pretty much.

    4. This is likely the main reason I joined this discussion. The 1 thing we ALL agree with is that Goalies are either undervalued and/or underappreciated. As a product, this may even be taking a toll on LGHL somehow, but I won't get into that as I don't have access to dat to prove/disprove that comment.

    The same discussion may/may not be one of the top issues for defencemen as well. (A discussion for others another day)

    5. Again, study closely and you will see there is room for improvement.

    I truly hope the outcome of all the discussions is: ALL GOALIES UNITE. Let's work together to show our worth to ALL of LGHL.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018
    Offline
    Bottomless_Pit
  10. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    562
    Discord:
    BottomlessPit#0959
    Trophy Points:
    791
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ratings:
    +255 / 15 / -9
    I just want to add, I'll be the 1st one to admit Goals are my fault even if the defence should have helped me out....and that there are some 'easy shots' I should have stopped. ..ask anyone for any team I have ever played Goalie for.

    Are we weird? Yes. You have to be insane to think you can beat EA 100% of the time.

    Can we do it all? No, we can't score the Goals too. At least not all of them.

    If every position does their "job". If every team has a strategy and can execute it consistently. It's a much different game for everyone.
     
    Offline
    Bottomless_Pit
  11. TripAcez

    TripAcez Aye Stop De Puck

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Ratings:
    +77 / 2 / -7
    I agree with bottomless to a point. Ww are in control of our positioning as far as saving a goal. But ea adds the random factor into it. You just dont know where a shooters going, high or low,far side top corner, far side armpit, 5 hole short side corner,short side armpit, shortside off the pad. Wayyy too many options for shooters not enough reaction time animations. Your best bet will be to hope it HITS you not so much an animation. I press RS ALOT and its bailed me out, my only gripe with it is when a shots blocked or a shot has already occured it doesnt allow you to adjust to the shot or do a late reaction attempt. I get locked into a butterfly animation with a larger opening to the net. God i hate that.( no i do not wish to play on the goal-line. I enjoy challenging the shooter a bit)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Offline
    Tripacez18
  12. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    562
    Discord:
    BottomlessPit#0959
    Trophy Points:
    791
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ratings:
    +255 / 15 / -9
    The other thing I will say is G is very different at each LG level. CHL, we ahl Gs should be able to guarantee a Mem Cup.

    AHL, have a heavy influence for a valuable G.

    NHL, you will need your teammates to play their positions solid. You can still be a wall but you will work a sweat and be screaming at your team by the end of the game if they can't present a challenge day in and day out.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Offline
    Bottomless_Pit
  13. bl1zz72

    bl1zz72 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    335
    Discord:
    bl1zz72#8459
    Trophy Points:
    1,191
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Ratings:
    +174 / 13 / -9
    I've played more NHL then any other level, usually guys are pretty good at calling themselves out when a goal is scored if it was their fault. As a goalie i would never yell at my players, just makes them want to play worse for you. Just my personal experience.
     
    No Streaming Account
  14. TripAcez

    TripAcez Aye Stop De Puck

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2010
    Messages:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    241
    Ratings:
    +77 / 2 / -7
    I push my guys, sometimes passion for perfection pushes them to be even better
     
    Offline
    Tripacez18
  15. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    562
    Discord:
    BottomlessPit#0959
    Trophy Points:
    791
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ratings:
    +255 / 15 / -9
    Agreed. I don't actually yell at anyone....but some guys do get quite frustrated and cause the drama either in the DR (be it on console or on LG) ...or in the LG cb's. I think you'll find most of the higher skilled and/or more experienced Gs keep cool. The point I was trying to make is that it is more challenging at the higher levels. Even more so in the E-sports level which I wouldn't try unless my team and I have complete confidence in each other...or I have money to spare.
     
    Offline
    Bottomless_Pit