ESHL Format Suggestions

Discussion in 'E-Sports Hockey League - Xbox' started by Tris10, Nov 27, 2018.

  1. Tris10

    Tris10 Site Founder

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    Change is never easy and you should never just settle for doing things one way and thats it. After listening to everyones feedback for the new style I have 2 suggestions that might solve the main issues everyone has. The 2 most common complaints with the new format we've heard are
    • Hate the "Best of 1 (bo1) format, allows for to many random bounces to determine games
    • Pay $50usd and might only play one single game
    Here are 2 suggestions i want to open up to the community, directly lifted from other professional sports

    Suggestion 1
    Instead of a one-and-done tournament, use the FIFA World Cup tournament. How this works is you would seed everyone into pools of 4. So if there was 16 teams there is Pool A,B,C,D. You play everyone in your pool once (so 3 games, perfect for Sunday?). Then from there you take the top 8 and do the bracket tournament on the Thrs if possible.
    Suggestion 2
    This breaks traditional hockey, but if you were just doing a bo1, what if all games had to be decided by 2 goals. This is like tennis where you have to win everything by 2. So if a game was 3-2, you would play another game til someone wins by 2 goals. The API would easily be able to handle the math for all stats. It gives a bit more room for the randomness that can happen in single game.
    I'd like to open up comments and suggestions, Thanks for reading.
     
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  2. x Hendry 91

    x Hendry 91 1/1

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    I like suggestion 1 but the bracket tournament would still be BO1 so probably wouldn't fix much...also how would the pools be determined? On the other hand I dont hate suggestion 2 but I just think it could possibly cause games to take way too long because you could play 4 games and have the scores be 3-2, 1-2, 4-3, 0-1 which would mean you'd play 4 games and still be "tied".

    How would you feel about implementing a canam style into ESHL? This way helps because people wouldn't complain about BO1's anymore and at the same time it won't take as long as if we were to implement BO3's or a losers bracket?
     
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  3. SweeT 9 LoU 84

    SweeT 9 LoU 84 Well-Known Member

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    Part 1

    Seasons - invite/open based on pro points for 1st season, followed by promotion and relegation

    8 invite teams (maybe 12 depending on signs ups)

    The rest open


    Invite play everyone 2 times (if 8)

    Open play everyone once (always more teams so their seasons take longer, wanna keep the seasons to about 2-4 weeks, shorter the better


    Playoffs to follow
    Best of 7 each round.



    Part 2
    Best of 1 tournament in the off season


    Keep pro points going. Players Earn points for every win they’re involved in, players lose, earn 0 or earn a small amount for losses.



    *You also really need to add the free play club games Brisan and I have suggested for 6 months now. It will keep club search games extremely active instead of the same teams scrumming over and over again every night and it would bring a leaderboard to LGHL for club as well as allow for club challenge games to be recorded if guys wanted to keep that going. On top of that it would encourage newer teams to sign up if their team does well or can hold their own. People don’t know bc they rarely match up against top teams in club search anymore bc most ESHL teams just do scrims all night. I will gladly head the free ladder league if you need someone to help you guys run that, although according to Brisan andhis post it runs itself bc it’s all just search type games and it will help keep “club brands” together


    @Tris10 @LG McDonald
     
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  4. Tris10

    Tris10 Site Founder

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    Good point to clarify

    So for suggestion #2, if you were 3-2 in the first game, you would stop the 2nd game as soon as any team got a 2 goal lead. So you wouldn't be forced to play a 2nd game if the 1st game wasn't a 2 goal win
     
  5. x Hendry 91

    x Hendry 91 1/1

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    so a team could go up 2-0 in the first and they would advance? this kind of goes back to your point of a team paying $50 to play one game.
     
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  6. Tris10

    Tris10 Site Founder

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    No, so you have to "win" by 2 goals, but finish one complete game, So if you were down 3-0 in the first, but say the game finished 3-2, you play basically play what is OT til one team has at least a 2 goal lead
     
  7. LemeIin

    LemeIin I pull up with a lemon

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    From what I’ve heard, most people, including myself want some sort of seasons format. Something like the old format but shorter.
     
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  8. Tris10

    Tris10 Site Founder

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    The last seasons were only 3 weeks, and still ran into the same problems. How can you go shorter then 3 week season + playoffs?
     
  9. x Hendry 91

    x Hendry 91 1/1

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    gotcha, games could still take an absurd amount of time. ie: our game vs fearless that went to 4OT and was a 1-0 game...if we fired up another game and won that game 2-1 in OT then we would've played 11 periods and would be back at square one. Personally I loved the season format which is actually weird because my team had some tough seasons with ff's and avail...the season format just allowed for more rivalries to be made and for the whole growing as a team aspect of hockey being implemented more than it is now
     
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  10. Cheez Whizzzzz

    Cheez Whizzzzz Well-Known Member

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  11. LemeIin

    LemeIin I pull up with a lemon

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    1) you can make the playoff series shorter or 2) less teams make the playoffs. Im not sure, those are just ideas, but I don’t think I stand alone when I say that people don’t want another tournament format for next season. Either way I will respect what you do!
     
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  12. John Bri I 7 I

    John Bri I 7 I Well-Known Member

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    Ranked from best to worst

    1 - Lou's suggestion
    2 - number 1
    3 - number 2
     
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  13. Fr33kOnTheStix

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    Deciding by 2 goals would literally take hours. Every game is 1-0.

    We'd be better off doing CanAm format than that, at least that way its probably only 6 periods for 1-0.

    Seasonal with one off tournies >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
     
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  14. Odieeeeee

    Odieeeeee mmmmmmmmmmmmm

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    So I know a lot of people really want the old format back so I'm proposing this new structure of invite/open division. The only difference from the old format would be the qualification for playoffs.

    Structure
    • Have 12 teams in invite division and the rest in open.
    • Play each team twice during the regular season.
    • Playoffs would become a double elimination bracket.
    • The top side of the double elimination bracket would consist of the top 8 teams from the invite division.
    • The bottom side of the double elimination bracket would consist of the bottom 4 teams from the invite division plus all (or even a subset) of the open division teams.
    • Once a team from the top side of the bracket loses, they move to the bottom side of the bracket.
    • Once a team from the bottom side of the bracket loses, they're out of the tournament.
    • Haven't thought about how many games are played at each round but that should be up for discussion.

    Pros
    • Teams would be less likely to forfeit out of a season in this current format since they can still win playoffs even if they finish last in invite division.
    • Integrates the open division with the invite division and allows open division to play for the same amount of money.
    • No more best of 1s.

    Cons
    • Playoffs will take a long time to complete.
    • Less flexibility in terms of roster restrictions than the tournament structure (assuming old roster restriction rules).
    Up For Debate
    • How do we determine who makes invite division and who doesn't?
    • Best of ? at each round
    • How would seeding work for the lower bracket?
    • Should the bottom 4 invite teams that move to the lower bracket have a few round byes?
    • Do all open division teams make playoffs?
    • Roster restrictions
    • Promotion/Relegation?
    • Penalty for forfeits?

    My main issue with the old format is the amount of teams that forfeit out a season because they're out of the playoffs. Whether it's invite or open, there's always a few teams that drop out at the end. With this format, you're not out of it until you're knocked out of the bracket. I also think that if we ever want some sort of sponsorship added to the prize pool, we need to limit the amount of forfeits in the season. It looks really bad on both the site and community if multiple teams are forfeiting out their season. Another issue I had with the old format was that open division had a lot of their money used for the prize pool of invite. I don't think it's fair that they play for a lesser prize pool and I feel like this structure solves that issue.

    In the end I want what is best for the community. I'm extremely passionate about this community because I've met a lot of great people and you guys deserve to play in the best format possible. I know a lot of people are pissed at me for proposing the current format and I apologize. I just saw a lot of issues in the old format and felt that there needed to be change.

    Let me know your thoughts.
     
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  15. Gwan

    Gwan Well-Known Member

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    The invite division was the correct move before, the only issue was people forfeiting at the end. Our temporary fix last year was to add a gradual forfeit fee that rose to the maximum $50 depending on how many games you forfeited. At the time that was the best we had and it didn't work but it added to the total prize pool for the end of that season which benefited the teams that did stay the course.

    The real fix we need is to stop people from quitting who aren't doing well at the middle/end of the season and give them a perspective that they're not out of the competition so they stick around. Based on Odie's suggestion above, I'm not sure if other teams would be happy losing to a team that shouldn't be there but them being in the loser's bracket to start is definitely better for both sides. The winning teams from the season are in top 8 and are given the chance at an easier road to the finals, and the teams that didn't have success during the season but are still a competitive team get a road in general instead of an off-season. If you can find 12 competent teams that you know are in it to win even if they don't do well Odie's idea can work as long as the games and structure for playoffs are decided fairly by the teams involved.

    One issue with this format is that it's focused on the 12 teams, and from what we've seen this season from several different one and done tournaments there is potential for a minimum of 16 competitive teams to be made so deciding who gets in and who doesn't should also be a major focus. The base structure for this idea in my opinion is the right direction though, a season provides stability for the league and a proper playoff leads to more viewership and excitement for big matchups if the structure is fitting.

    Another suggestion that works with Odie's format is if people think their team can really be competitive and win it all, why can't we place all those teams into one division like how we had back in NHL 16. 16-20 teams possibly if we need to and run a season like that. 32-40 games isnt the worst (4 sunday, 4 thursday = 4-5 week season) and provides a higher prize pool which we all want. The key is to find teams that are willing to stick around even in a losing season so they can still get a shot in the losers playoff bracket.

    There are also teams that understand they need to improve still before playing the best of the best in the Invite division and they can play in the Open divison. Just from playing the 10 ESHL events so far there have been plenty of players/teams that hadn't played ESHL before but still wanted to compete. Even if its 10-12 teams to start, just for the sake of getting semi-competitive games in and improving their skills I think it could be beneficial for them and the league. They can keep their prize pool separate from the Invite division this time so they have a decent amount of money to be playing for. Finding good games in matchmaking is a rarity now, this should be an obvious way to get better for these new teams or guys just looking to play some tough games at their own level.

    I'm definitely for Odie's format but the introduction to that setup needs to be done correctly, the season after that will run smooth and then playoff structure also needs to be agreed upon with the teams involved during that season.
     
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  16. drally20

    drally20 Well-Known Member

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