Please Vote! Majority Separation of the NHL and AHL

Lately people have been throwing their ideas out for large scale changes that they'd make to LG, so I figured now would be a solid time to throw out ideas for changes that I would like to see LG consider making. Note: I wanted to be as detailed as possible, so long post warning.

Question: What would be the major changes for the league?

Answer: There would be two major changes that would bring about a multitude of other changes across the NHL/AHL.

1.) NHL TC/NHL TC Draft/League Separation

• After NHL bidding concludes the NHL will conduct a TC Draft for all players not taken in NHL bidding (obviously prior to AHL bidding). The exact number of players to be selected in this draft can be debated. However, the ideal number, in my opinion, would be Six total rounds for the draft (3 forwards, 2 D and 1 G), so essentially an entire fourth line as the TC for the NHL team. Plus the players taken in the CHL Entry Draft (more on that in a bit). The NHL TC Draft goes hand in hand with the separation of the NHL/AHL. The NHL TC would become the sole source of call-up eligible players for the NHL, and NHL teams would no longer have any say regarding anything for their AHL affiliates. The teams would still be affiliated in the sense that the NHL would still be able to use their AHL roster/TC to ECU when needed. Note: Players selected in the NHL TC Draft would still enter AHL bidding. Those contracts won in bidding will be meaningless towards a potential NHL call-up, as NHL TC call-ups will be for the league minimum.

Pros of the NHL TC Draft for the NHL:

• The draft is only six rounds, so it wouldn't be too incredibly long.
• NHL teams have more of a say on which players around the league they can easily call-up (no longer have to worry about their AHL team bidding on solid players for them to potentially call-up or use as ECUs).
• All players drafted in the NHL TC Draft will be call-up eligible at the league minimum salary (500K), and can be traded freely.
• Could consider making the TC Draft selections tradable also. Good to have as many tradable assets as possible, especially when making trades at the trade deadline.
• NHL teams no longer have to be concerned about calling up AHLers who have too high of a contract. I know this has been a source of complaint from the NHL for years that they can never call up the best AHLers because they went for an absurd price in AHL bidding. As long as teams take the draft seriously, they'll have the best AHLers available for call-ups.
• Teams can more freely "tinker" with their roster (ex: Team "A" has a struggling third liner, they can waive said player and quickly insert one of their TC players). Note: If a player clears waivers, they go directly to NHL TC and get RA'd to an AHL team (like how AHL waivers works with the CHL). DPs and As would both remain NHL waivers exempt, and would also get RA'd to an AHL/CHL team if their rights aren't already owned by one.
• Teams will no longer have to struggle to find AHL management, and would no longer have to deal with complaints from their AHL affiliate.

Cons of the NHL TC Draft for the LGHL:

• NHL owners will no longer be responsible for an entire NHL and AHL organization (some owners/managers would love to just focus on their own team, but others genuinely enjoy running an entire organization, so it would be a con for those who do actually enjoy running the whole show).
• It might take some time for teams to get used to the new system, and ensuring your TC complies with the rules could be an issue. There would have to be a limit on the total number of TC players for each team. In my opinion I'd cap the TC to 10 total players for each NHL team (the 6 drafted players, plus DPs). The NHL is supposed to be the best of the best, so the vast majority of teams shouldn't ever come close to depleting their TCs anyway.
• Potential for fewer available ECUs. The team would still have a "loose" relationship with their AHL affiliate and can use their AHL roster + TC to use as ECUs when needed, but it's possible these players would be less interested in ECUing for a team that can't possibly call them up.
• Would still likely deal with complaints from AHL teams if they call-up TCs who are also on an AHL roster, but the AHL teams would also be fully aware that they've taken this risk, so you can just laugh at them for complaining.

Pros of the NHL TC Draft for the LGAHL:

• Having full autonomy of your AHL team. No longer having to worry about your NHL team trading your assets or calling people up without your approval.
• You're fully aware of whether or not you're bidding on or trading for players who have the potential to be called up.
• Teams will more easily be able to stick with their same organizations for multiple seasons and not have to worry about being picked by NHL owners or losing their team when a different NHL owner comes in.
• More of an even playing field. Teams won't have the advantage of having NHL teams who gift them things, and as mentioned at length teams also can't be hurt by their NHL teams.

Cons of the NHL TC Draft for the AHL:

• Diminished bidding pool. Six TC players per NHL team means a decent amount of the AHLs top players will end up being call-up eligible. Bidding on these players would be risky. You'd need to be very smart in bidding.
• Obviously you can still lose players due to NHL call-ups if you roster players who are under NHL control (at least this way, losing players would be 100% on yourself and you can prepare yourself in advance for potentially losing these players).

2.) Four Round CHL Entry Draft

• Yes, I'd like to see a return of the four round CHL Entry Draft (if enough CHL prospects permit). However, instead of the four rounds strictly being for the NHL, the first two rounds of the draft would specifically be for NHL teams (these drafted players go to their TC) and the last two rounds are specifically for the AHL. I'd propose that we finally impose a limit on the amount of DPs a team can use each season. As already mentioned, the NHL TC would have a maximum of 10 players (6 to be drafted in the AHL TC Draft), so that would leave us with a maximum of four DPs per team. I suppose we could allow teams to use more DPs, but they would then lose out on a round in the TC Draft. The DP contract values would need to be debated once again. I'd say 500K for all of them, but there's bound to be some super elite player who comes along again and everyone will complain about them being 500K for two seasons.

Pros of the new CHL Draft for the LGHL:

• DPs are now more valuable to your organization then they were previously. DPs should hold a slightly higher trade value.
• Quicker Draft.

Cons of the new CHL Draft for the LGHL:

• Realistically, there probably won't be two full rounds worth of CHLers actually worthy of being on an NHL TC.
• Teams would actually have to do some CHL scouting to make better use out of their DPs.
• Teams can't hoard a ton of DPs (this is good and bad, teams really shouldn't be able to hoard picks, but struggling teams do so every season).

Pros of the CHL Draft on the LGAHL:

• AHL teams finally have another asset to be used in trades.
• Should make trade deadlines more meaningful. Sellers have something to trade for other than TC players, and buyers have an extra asset.

Cons of the CHL Draft on the LGAHL:

• Lose out on selecting higher round talent that should be rostered in the AHL. The drafted players who end up on NHL TC will be RA'd to AHL and CHL TCs, but obviously they wouldn't be your "property" and could be lost at any time to an NHL call-up.

Overall impact of these rule changes on the CHL

• I didn't forget about the CHL. Honestly, the CHL remains rather unchanged. The only potential negative for the CHL would pertain to players drafted in the new format. Players taken in the last two rounds would be ineligible to make an NHL roster until their draft contract ends, and players taken in the first two rounds who don't make the NHL might have trouble finding a roster spot at a lower level because they are a call-up risk (they are a call-up risk under the current format also though). As far as the positives for the CHL, the AHL having more control of their roster should hopefully lead to less overturn of their roster and see fewer call-ups from the CHL.

What about the league as a whole (Tris, Brodie & The BOGS)?

Pros

• The league FINALLY makes some HUGE changes that the community has been asking from them for years. Is it a slam-dunk that these changes would increase overall interest in LG? Probably not (that's really only something that can happen with a decent game to play), but in my opinion these changes would certainly further separate LG from it's league competitors.
• Would definitely increase peoples interest in managing in the AHL. Would also likely help slightly increase interest in NHL ownership.
• Fewer complaints and issues regarding the strained relationships between the NHL and their AHL affiliate that have blown out of proportion this season.
• The league would pick AHL management instead of NHL owners (more work for the Bogs, but should hopefully see more qualified managers). This would also eliminate non-competitive teams season after season due to their NHL teams not caring about or pillaging their AHL teams.

Cons

• The only legitimate con, in my opinion, is just how massive of a change all of this would be. Saying this would be a lot of work for Tris and staff would be a major understatement. I'm positive Tris has the capabilities required to make these changes, but would he be willing to spend the amount of time it would take to implement these changes?
• Some people don't like change, and it takes people time to get used to changes. Especially big changes, like these, but change is certainly needed right now.
• The league would need to find out if the majority of the NHL and AHL would support these changes, and listen to feedback and suggestions.

My Final Thoughts:

• In a small amount of time we've literally gone from taking into account the AHLs level of success for NHL managerial awards to the league not giving any form of punishment whatsoever to NHL Owners who allow their AHL teams to forfeit or who dismantle their AHL or have completely non-competitive AHL teams every season. In my opinion, a middle ground needs to be found or even better almost completely remove the need for an NHL/AHL relationship. With changes almost certainly coming to LG, I figured I'd throw my ideas out there on how to help fix some of the issues plaguing LG. As someone who's played in and managed in all levels of LG at every different role (Owner/GM/Paid AGM) I tried my best to think of the interests/needs for both the NHL and AHL. I believe that the AHL would greatly support these changes, but I'm not 100% sure how the NHL managers/community would feel about these changes. I'm hoping the NHL doesn't shit on these ideas, like they did with Chi's ideas lol, as I firmly believe my ideas would also greatly help the NHL, if implemented.
• The fact of the matter is that rule changes are coming to help the AHL. You can say all you want that this was a Summer season outlier or that we're overblowing how bad the situation down here is, but that's simply not true. You can also say "The AHL is a farm team" all you want, the fact of the matter is that the AHL isn't treated like a farm system by a large amount of NHL organizations... These changes can either be large scope changes, like I'm proposing here, that should hopefully benefit everyone or smaller changes that would likely only benefit the AHL (AHL call-up protections, restricting NHL call-ups to open spots only, no trading of AHL assets, etc.). In all likelihood the changes that end up being made will be the small changes due to the fact that the larger scale changes would take a significant effort to change. With enough support however, I believe the league would seriously consider the larger changes. @LG McDonald I've briefly discussed some of these ideas with you, and I figured I'd explain them all in as much detail as possible. You'll probably say it's not possible to make changes that are this significant, and likely will just make smaller changes, but I figured I'd throw my ideas out anyway.
• There will never be a perfect system. There will be complaints from somebody regardless of what is or isn't done to change the league. LG is clearly by far the greatest site for online hockey, but simply being the best doesn't mean you should ignore the opportunity to make further improvements. I've put as much thought/detail into this as I possibly could, but I'm open to any questions/comments/concerns/suggestions.

 

For those of you saying no or possibly. I'm curious as to why. Is it simply because these changes are too much and the league would never go for it? Or do you actually think these changes wouldn't help the NHL? I wanted to start a conversation with this, and I guess people got exhausted after reading the "Lou-level" post

Let me put it for you this way. Would you rather see the changes that I'm proposing? Or would you rather the league potentially implement these rule changes...

• NHL can't trade anyone won in AHL bidding.
• NHL can only call someone up if they send someone down to their AHL (player must clear waivers and be cap compliant for the AHL team) or if they have an open spot because of a ban.
• AHL gets call up protections to protect their top players in case their NHL team has multiple bans.

These are things that Brodie is legitimately looking at implementing to help the AHL, and these things would do the exact opposite of what the NHL wants (to make it easier to call-up the best players from the AHL), and would only benefit the AHL.

@BlueLineKing7 @EVO Volcano @erinssilence @GingerNHL @zClmZy @Coach Denham @Hullzzyy @UniqueSniper135 @Get Acedd @Schreiny @mashotpa

 

what a stupid idea

 

.....this seems like a lit of work to correct the "Minor league cap hit carries up" issue.

There's a much simpler fix: get rid of that.

If the point of that was to let A/C teams protect individual players, just make an actual protection list/mechanic and get rid of cap hit carrying up.

I hate this suggestion. Just takes you further and further away from the "simulation" aspect.

 

I didn't read this post before chiming in.


I'd say do all 3 of the things suggested here and call it a day (assuming those are Implemented WITH getting rid of your Cap carrying up)

If your won in A bidding the N team can decide if they want you on their extended roster or not. If your not on "extended roster " your essentially callup protexted or some similar mechanic

I just don't think creating a whole separate block of players is the right move here. I wouldn't mind what your suggesting but those tc players should essentially be two way contracts and be on your ahl team

 

I would agree that the simpler fix would be the protection list/mechanic and cap hit. If LG is trying to be as simulation-like as possible then most AHLers that get called up would not be at whatever their AHL bidding price is. The most ideal situation would be like a 2-way contract system. I could see that being done a few ways.

Option 1:
- player won in AHL bidding has an AHL cap but then also has an NHL cap hit for incase they're called up
- this could be something where A status players would be 500k and V status like 1mil or something similar to that to differentiate between long time players and newer players.

Option 2:
- players won in AHL bidding would have that be their AHL cap but call up cap would be based on a tiered system
- tiered system would be much like how the resign system is where if they're within a certain range then their cap hit would be so much and so on.
(example)
Player's salary: $500,000 - $1,500,000: NHL cap hit of $500k
Player's salary: $1,750,000 - $3,000,000: NHL cap hit of $750k
Player's salary: $3,250,000 - $5,000,000: NHL cap hit of $1.5mil
Player's salary: $5,250,000 - $7,000,000: NHL cap hit of $2mil
- this way mimics the draft contracts slightly as well
- the one thing I would add here is that call ups above a certain cap hit would need to be approved as well, this way it gives the league a chance to intervene if a call up situation may potentially lead to an AHL team folding and what not

Option 3:
- players won in AHL bidding that are V status get the right to choose if they will accept a call up
- if a player decides not to accept a call up then that player is ineligible for a call up the rest of that season, regardless of trades or anything, as well as they can't be sent down to the CHL
- this would essentially end players getting called up to bad teams and quitting right away

Sadly though, despite however much effort people put into thinking up different solutions, fixes, or re-structures none of it will really matter. Ultimately, the LG side comes down to what works for the league as a whole and a few one off situations here and there, while bad, doesn't necessarily dictate change. On top of that, the amount of work that would go into implementing any of these things would be taxing for people doing it for free. It'll also just create confusion amongst players and managers as well. I can tell you that just even changing the lag out rules this season threw off a lot of managers to where they either didn't follow the new rule and just used the old one or they just did whatever and said screw it. Then throw in the fact that almost every league out there has different rules and such that tend to be more complex (not in structure but more weirdness) that then always somehow get mixed in someones head and they argue that it was an LG rule. Like, my team lost a game this szn because our G was convinced that AI goals after a lag out in the 3rd don't count and my teams compy scored to tie the game but in his head that goal didn't count (because of some league rule) that he threw the puck out on the next shot thinking that we needed to score another goal still and ended up giving up a goal off that.

Bottom line, LG is reaching a critical point here with the rise of NHL team sponsored tourneys, potential EA splitting console generations, and the management situation where players either aren't wanting to manage or the only ones that are are looked down upon as not being good (more of a lower level problem). Any drastic changes at this point are high risk and could result in a league collapse to an extent.

 

I think your suggestions are inline with what I'd want to see.

But I dont think you get league collapse, just a change of quality. That sucks, don't get me wrong, but that's largely because LG has been successful in proving there's a market for competitive NHL 6v6 online.

Is it a bummer if you've been a long time LGer and used to this being the creme de le creme for competition? Absolutely, but that's progress baby. If LG wants to have the very best talent, then they probably need to start having a prize pool, otherwise it's always going to be at odds with the "real" esports tourneys, even if those competitions are being played on the foundation LG built.

LG at a critical mass point for sure but it's not whether or not the league exists, it's who it appeals too/who's in it. This league is amazingly run in terms of the depth of rules and controls in place, it's really something special. BUT...the wspoets team has matured to the point where there's a lot of competition for where the best players want to play. LG will have to decide whether it keeps up it's incredibly implemented "simulation" league or moves to a more esports focused setup. One of those options is fsr more likely to maintain committed top tier talent because something tangible would be on the line.

The league stuff is hand wave worthy to me, you can't legislate stupid.

 

we cannot change things just to accomodate AHL owners, you know what your getting into be4 you do your bidding for your AHL roster, yes it sucks to do so much work and have guys taken away by callup or what ever reason, but at the end of the day its LG and rules are rules, no owner is doing anything their not allowed to do, you have put a ton of work into these ideas and i respect that but they would never work. at the end of the day i think maybe having a protection list for AHL guys like they do in the CHL has a better chance of flying then so many changes at one time.

 

I agree, and stated in my post that the smaller changes are far more likely. You're also contradicting yourself here. It doesn't make sense to say we can't change things just to accommodate AHL owners, then suggest we should give them protections (something that would only help the AHL, and make it harder for the NHL to call-up the best AHLers). The whole point of my post is to help both leagues, and not just one. The smaller rule changes thrown out there almost exclusively helps just the AHL.

These three changes and the reduction for NHL call-ups is likely what's going to happen.

Also, the people drafted in the TC Draft wouldn't be stuck on NHL TC. They'd still go to AHL bidding, and would more than likely still get bids (likely at a cheaper price).

I'd say two-way contracts for a certain number of players won in AHL bidding would likely cause more harm than good. NHL owners would want to take more control of AHL bidding in this scenario, and you'd 100% see AHL managers and NHL managers imploding over disagreements with who to bid on.

 

Separate what, this is a fucking sim league, AHL are the NHL farm teams, MF farm, aka you little farm animals should listen to your sheppards.

On a serious note, we shouldn't allow AHL lifers and let it become their "home" If they are good enough to be in the NHL, force them to come up , sim league , who the fuck wants to be an AHL shitter forever.

On that note , cya next season in the A !!

Boomer Tino , would type more but my arthritis flaring up

 

Can Boomer Tino read though? The whole point of the post for the NHL is to have the "best" AHLers call-up eligible for them at 500K, therefore making it easier to call-up the best AHLers...

The sim league argument is the dumbest argument in existence, but if you want to go that route... These ideas are more realistic to the current state of the real life NHL/AHL. The "TC" that I'm proposing would be more like real life NHL players who are scratched or the "taxi-squad" players we've seen since Covid (hell call it the LG Taxi Squad instead of NHL TC, if it makes you happy), with the only difference being these players can still play at the lower levels so their seasons aren't wasted.

 

I think i like this idea a bit better after further explanation.

I think we're headed in the same direction: essentially someway to flag SOME of your AHL players as "two way contracts" that behave the same way as current AHL contracts (minus cap-hit carrying UP, but tied to the N org and treated as an N org asset) and then "minor league only" deals (where the A team has total control over the player/signs off on any moves/attempts by the N involving that player).

this would be closer to how the N/A is actually structured. Only part I'm not convinced on is if that distribution should be a draft or just built into bidding somehow....but i'm warming to it...

 

I just feel like the Draft would be less of a headache than handing out two way contracts after AHL bidding. NHL and AHL teams will fight over who they want to bid on to give those two way contracts, and you'd see NHL owners bidding a shit ton on certain players so that they can hand them the cheaper two way contract, if they ever need it, and screw over the AHLs cap situation. We've seen people in the past do that back when there were late signups.

The draft shouldn't take too long, gives the NHL the best call-up eligible players, and at the cheapest possible price. While alerting the AHL managers of who's most at risk to be called up. Both options impact AHL bidding pretty significantly.

 

People just don’t want change or simply don’t care about the AHL. The “sim league” argument is lazy. This is a video game and we are not even close to an actual copy cat league.

 

The vote is more even then I thought it would be from the NHL, but unsurprisingly not a single person who has voted no has given any sort of logical explanation as to how these ideas wouldn't help the NHL. The sim league argument is idiotic, and Freak is the only person who voted no to give an actual response, but he also contradicted himself. He is right that technically nobody is breaking the rules, but that's a clear issue with the league as a whole by not actually holding the NHL accountable for their AHL.

Seems like their egos don't want to give up having full control of everything. Which is perfectly fine. The NHL should have full control over everything (when they actually run their entire organization the right way). Unfortunately that won't ever happen, so just let the NHL run their own teams, however they want to. Too many teams don't give a single fuck about anyone below them, and the league doesn't make them take any sort of responsibility for their AHL teams forfeiting or continuously being absolute shit shows. Then you have the few weird teams who seemingly care more about their AHL team than their NHL team, which also ruins any sort of competitiveness in the AHL and keeps those "NHL level AHL lifers" from ever considering moving up.

 

It’s sad, people are complaining the league is dying but when change is proposed they are against it.

Also freak has no room to talk when his AHL team is better than his own team. The “rules are the rules” is exactly what the issue is.

Both leagues need a complete overhaul or it will slowly decline as it has already. Whatever that may be. Either way solutions have been proposed.

 

100% the league is just going to throw some bandaids on shit that really needs some stitches, but it is what it is.

They'll give the NHL their salary reduction for call-ups while giving the AHL protections and likely making it so the NHL can't trade AHL assets without their permission, and call it a day. People will still end up complaining, and the cycle will continue.

 

Guys , shouldnt you be at the anti-vaxx parade