What Makes a Defenseman Good?

Hey everyone, I want to pose a question to the community about how they would scout for a defenseman. Since the LG site only rates players by points scored, I decided to come up with a formula for rating defensemen and forwards based on their all around performance. Obviously scoring goals is the most important thing for forwards but is it the same for defensemen?

With the current LG system only Offensive Defensemen get any love, and Defensive Defensmen get the "you're a shitter" treatment. What I am trying to do is give more credit to those who play a strong defensive game without discrediting those who know how to score. Based on the results of this poll, I'll be adjusting the formula that I created already and reveling my list tomorrow of Elite AHLers and Elite Shitters.

Thanks for reading! I look forward to the feedback and name calling over my list tomorrow

 

Honestly Defense is more of a watch how someone plays spot instead of a stat spot. Sure stats look nice but the big ones that get looked at are more team focused.

Goals and assists are nice measures of offensive ability but a lot can be argued against that it was good cycle or forward play that set it up.

+/- is simply a luck stat more then anything. Granted better players usually have a better chance at higher +/- but in reality it's a sign of how good your team is as a whole and whether you were on the ice. I mean when you can get credited for something positive just by standing around and watching 4 other players work for a goal it's probably not the best measure.

Blocks would be way higher if EA could ever figure out how to properly calculate the damn things. In game you'll see a stat for 6 blocked shots but player summary will show none cuz you didn't actually hit the crouch block button.

Hits really don't mean anything either cuz you could have someone skating around looking to murder people but never play his spot.

In reality, stats are great but they're false idols in the hands of cult leaders who can get anyone to drink the kool aid of that stat being relevant at any given time.

 

You all suck

 

You can't evaluate defensemen on stats. I made a sarcastic list of the league's best defensemen (which some people took seriously) but the actual point of the thread was to showcase how irrelevant stats are in regards to a defenseman's skill.

Yes a good player will have good stats but good stats doesn't necessarily entail a good player.

Also, like Dmac said, it's not that Defensive Dmen get no love, but you need to be well rounded. You won't be praised for making a great poke check but then turning the puck over on a forced pass. You need to be well positioned, good at breakouts, be able to read plays and know when not to pinch, be able to contribute to the cycle, and so on. Points & GA/TA represent this the best, but they don't paint the whole picture whatsoever.

 

If you are truly a good defensive dman people will notice you for clamping down and people will not want to play against you, nothing more frustrating about not being to get quality shots on net because you can't get around dman

But that goes to say if you can't make a breakout pass wtf you doing in the ahl, on good teams that know how to score they are looking for dman that can clamp and get the puck out of the zone to forwards and let them take care of most of the offence

 

When ypu get first lines a lot you know you don't suck, I agree stats are extremely misleading with defense, more of a gotta play with them thing

 

eyetest

 

Me

 

Surprised to see +/- 2nd in voting here. I consider +/- a team stat more so then an indicator of what makes a defensemen good. Sure the d-men play a role in making a team good but so many other factors go into +/- that I really don't consider it a strict factor in determining whose good or not.

As others have said, stats don't tell the entire picture. For me to have a solid understanding of whose good and who isn't, I'd need to have been able to watch a few games of that player with my own eyes. That being said, the three stats I chose in the poll were Takeaways, Giveaways, and Assists.

Having a High Takeaway stat could mean that a d-man is excellent at stripping the puck from the opposition but it could also mean that they're far to aggressive when attacking defensively. Typically I lean to it being a positive indicator if high but I'd need to watch a player to ensure they're implementing their takeaway strategies in a non-risky manner.

Having high assists could mean that the d-man is solid at breakout passes (very important) and a capable playmaker at the blue-line while in the o-zone which in my opinion is the difference maker between a good dman and an elite dman. If you can create high o-zone scoring chances from the defensive position to go along with plus defence then IMO you've got an elite skill-set. This stat could also be skewed though if a player is on an insanely high scoring team.

Giveaways in my opinion would probably be in the top 3 most important stats for a d-man although again, you'd need to watch a player to make sure this stat tells an accurate picture because it can also be skewed. Giving away the puck as a defensemen is not a good thing no matter how you cut it. D-Men are typically the last line of protection so if they give the puck away, quality scoring chances will likely be had by the opposition so by that thinking, having a low giveaway number is probably a good thing.

That being said, if you have an Erik Karlsson type defensemen on your team who consistently creates plays, brings the puck up, and generates goals, they will, by the nature of their play style, have higher giveaways. These Erik Karlsson type defenders may give up a few more odd man rushes then your normal defensive defensemen but they'll be so busy generating twice as many goals then anyone else that giving up a giveaways here and there is a non-issue because of the additional production they're generating. Having never watched dmac7719 play but going by his stats (high giveaway stat but insane point production) I'd say he might be this type of player.

 

I agree with a lot that everyone is stating about looking at specific stats. I think when you combine and look at a whole you can get a much better picture but that is still never better than seeing the player for yourself. However, I'm about to post my list and formula and hopefully it gives a slightly better idea of a player's skill. It, won't be perfect but with some feedback I'll keep tweaking the scalers and formulas until we can get a generally good ranking. To get an idea of how it works, the giveaways are a huge negative in the formula but if you have a higher point total it counters that negative into a positive. I believe at the moment it is set up so you can have about 4 giveaways per point and be positive and about 6 giveaways per goal. I'll explain more in the thread here shortly.

 

+/- for a defender is misleading. Look at so many of the CHL defender stats with guys who are +50. Doesn't always mean they are a great D man. They got some great forwards in front of them who can produce. Granted it isn't nice to see a player with -50 but there are a lot of factors that can influence a player's +/- like their supporting cast. It's a sexy stat to look at but I don't think it defines a good defenseman.

Takeaways, blocked shots, and low giveaways are probably the best tools we have right now with the stats that we count, but unless you are watching gamefilm and breaking down every defenders game it is tough to quantify who is the best based on statistics. DFDs are crucial but they dont hit the stat sheet.

I was surprised i was one of the only ppl to vote for PIMs. It's annoying af to play with a defender who takes multiple penalties a game. If you're disciplined and dont spam poke and get charging calls all the time, you got a step up on everyone else.

All in all, just because you have a bunch of offensive points and a high plus minus doesnt make u the best. You're on a good line or good team. If youre the only guy tho on that team with high numbers, that may be something to look at.

 

What makes a defenseman good is the ability to breakout and create opportunities for the offense without turning it over in the defensive zone. Defensively the most important thing is making it as difficult as possible for the other team to enter your zone

 

Apparently nothing I do

 

Breaking out is the most Important for d, there isn’t really a stat for it but it will lead to less turnovers and icings, aside from that not giving up breakaways or 2 on 1s, and holding your own blue line to an extent (don’t just keep backing up) are all huge too. Elite defenceman do all that and keep the puck in the offensive zone and can find their forwards with passes from almost anywhere on the ice

 

Jkayy me too.

 

None of they above


Positioning is the correct answer

 

As a player with good stats in the chl and bad stats in the ahl on defense I definitely agree that being on a bad team or good team really effects your stats. I have been fortunate to be on good teams in the chl but unfortunate to be on bad teams in the ahl, especially my first season.

I definitely agree in watching a dman play then just looking at stats. There are tons of dmen out there with worse stats then I and they are hella better then me.

I think i'm a wayy better puck mover then most defensemen and it's honestly frustrating to watch dmen struggle breaking out n such.

I think puck control, positioning, passing ability and a good stick is most important for a d man.. stats wise I gotta go with takeaways, giveaways and assists. I think these stats because no matter on a bad team or good team I think you can have good stats in these categories. Depending on your play style giveaways might be not as important because they aren't in the defensive or neutral zone.

I'm worried about nhl 19 though because the poke check is pretty much a tripping button now soo i'm gonna have to implement hitting into my game now. I love the ability to get more offense going in nhl 19 though. I'm excited for it.

 

The ability to breakout, get your forwards the puck without getting them drilled and playing sound defensively. Other than center your Dmen have to be very cerebral about the game, close out passing lanes so your tendy only has a shot to contest with. I think what also gets overlooked quite a bit is the ability to make a fore checker miss and create space in transition. I’ve seen and played with some good Dmen, but if I were to start a team I’m starting with @Jmorris0009

 

I think goals against is one of the biggest stats. Plus/minus is too cloudy. Sure, goalies come into play, but the best goalies will tell you they are onlyas good as their defensemen.

Beyond that stats are misleading. Watching a defenseman is better than stat scouting. Same goes for forwards and goalies though, tbh.