What separates a Goalie from being good, to greatness?

Discussion in 'Leaguegaming American Hockey League (LGAHL)' started by Bottomless Pit, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

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    shout out to @NotoriousFAT 00 & @euroxhalfer for motivating me to write up this post based on conversation created out of Exposed, Ep. 9.

    The eternal question for a G, or about G's, is s/he great when:
    • s/he's behind the best team & makes the stops? OR
    • s/he's behind the worst team & makes the stops?
    imo, neither. he's great when he can make all the stops regardless. can you literally be a wall 100% through the whole season? no. with so many variables and stats....how can G greatness truly be measured? On top of that irl we can factor in style and attitude...but virtually that's a bit more difficult.

    I'd like to hear your input and hopefully stir some conversation (my intent). I'm sure somewhere along the way I'll jump in as well.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
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  2. An AngryFawn

    An AngryFawn Washed Goalie

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    In my opinion, what makes a goalie great is the goalies consistency. Can a goalie be more than just a one week wonder, or can he be solid every week and make the stops he needs to make. I’ll use my season for example. I play on what I know is a good Rochester team. I haven’t had the best season statistic wise when I know I can put the numbers up. I have two player of the weeks where both came off of amazing weeks whether I went 5-1-0 or 4-1-0, But I followed it with a 1-5-0 week or a week I know, where if I played more consistent, I could’ve won a few more. So ultimately I feel consistency plays a huge part. Especially if you can get your best play going in the playoffs.
     
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  3. DaYoungBuck

    DaYoungBuck Kingsmen Defencemen - #42

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    @TheCheetahlo 33 is a perfect example of this debate. Look at how he played in Weeks 1-3. Week 1 on Lehigh Valley (Bottom team) and Weeks 2/3 on Ontario (Dead last team). He managed to maintain Top 3 goalies stats in the league playing on arguably 2 of the worst teams in the league for 1/3 of the season. I personally would consider him great.

    Then, there are goalies like @Darcy Kuemper who has been on the best team in the AHL, hands down, all season long. His stats are fabulous. However, everyone KNOWS Darcy is a fantastic goalie. Probably the best and most consistent goalie in the AHL for the past 3-4 seasons. He is great and is proven to be great. His stats are always impeccably great. But I also do believe his stats took a slight increase than in season's past just by being on the team he's been on all season.
     
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  4. Garis93

    Garis93 and they don't stop coming

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    Need a good team in front of you.
     
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  5. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

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    ...curious if we should bring into the mix G's of seasons past whom have moved on to the N....or even look at current Gs and see how they performed in the C before getting the call up to the A
     
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  6. Captain_Horvat

    Captain_Horvat Well-Known Member

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    @Darcy Kuemper Is the best Goalie I've ever played with or against. Hands down. He brought up a point to me a couple weeks ago, go look at Dmans stats while they were defending for me and after. And it's true, guy can single handedly win you games. And because of that past teammates and Dpairs see a spike in stats and wins when playing in front of him. Then a sudden drop when they aren't. Very rare company. You can always pick up on Gs tendencies, but Darcys just always in position, and has great IQ to read and react properly every time.

    @shutthegate Is probably the only G I'd have rival Darcy. such similar playstyles, only difference is Darcy can hammer a 12 pack and pitch a shut out, shut can't even handle a beer, nerd lol

    Of course im biased, and had the privilege of playing with and against them many times. But that only solidifies my feelings. 2 of the best Gs in LG hands down
     
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  7. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

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    Some of the people who make this argument (not necessarily you @Garis93 ) are basically saying that the G needs to be on a good team to be recognized.

    Let's play devil's advocate:

    A goalie (goalie A) on the worst team, but still makes the stops and gets the undeserving Ws literally carrying the team to playoffs and a cup. Would this G not have to work harder to get the Cup and so make that G more great than one (goalie B) whom has an unstoppable force in front of him and doesn't have to sweat as much?

    Is a goalie's greatness increased or decreased by:
    • situation 1: the lack of defense & goal support? OR
    • situation 2: presence of defense & goal support?

    ...before you submit your replies or comments, consider how/when players or goalies (possibly including yourselves) are quick to blame EA for allowing/not allowing a Goal...
     
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  8. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

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    curious...does this mean if you ever (rarely) catch him out of position that you will get the goal (assuming the shot is made on target) ?

    *edit: also, I think we can all agree a Goalie can't be great without being reliable and consistent as previously stated...but is that enough? @AngryFawn368505
     
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  9. Captain_Horvat

    Captain_Horvat Well-Known Member

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    Good luck catching him out of position. If you do, he's probably still making the save lol
     
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  10. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

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    I wish we could factor in a Goalie's rebound stats and skater's stats of picking up the rebounds or scoring on rebounds etc (ie. advanced stats ?) ...another one could be tipped shot stats.

    ...anyways, i'm not mentioning them to discuss stats or how they're taken...just saying there's a lot more to meet the eye to being a Goalie than simply 'stopping the puck' though that IS the whole purpose of the G.
     
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  11. TheCheetahlo 33

    TheCheetahlo 33 Well-Known Member

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    Completely agree with Fawn, in regards to consistency. Can you consistently make the saves you should make while also making some or even most of the saves you shouldn’t make; i.e. Circle to Circle One Timers, Backdoor Shots/One Timers etc. Can you recognize plays before they fully set up? Can you see the ice and see which guys are covered and which guys may be slightly open or wide open and anticipate?

    I’ve been lucky enough throughout my career to mostly play with above average and great defense. I’ve played a total of 3 weeks of my LG career without my backpacks @REDWINGSSPEEDY1 and @l Freddy ll , but also playing against better competition makes you a better player obviously, and when we play club we usually match up against guys who are well above average.

    Also, most players I feel in LG especially in AHL and NHL know when their goalie didn’t have much of a chance and don’t blame them. It’s a lot easier for me to play when I’m able to trust and rely on my defense to take away that shot, or that angle.

    In my opinion, (which no one cares about) don’t judge a goalie based off one game. And don’t judge any goalie until you see them play consistently with reliable (NOT great) defense. If they’re out of position a lot, not anticipating obvious passes, getting sniped on more than one occasion, too deep in their net, too far in their net, and not trusting their defense (which is very difficult to do with under-average defenseman, and sometimes you can’t) then they’re not very good.

    Lastly, every great goalie still has bad games, every shit goalie will somehow manage a 22 save shutout sometimes.
     
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  12. BlueJays34

    BlueJays34 Zay Szn

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    I’m the best goalie this league has ever seen
     
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  13. Too Much Twoco

    Too Much Twoco Well-Known Member

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    Great topic. As @AngryFawn368505 stated, consistency is 100% an essential element. Come playoff time, you need a goalie who doesn't let in goals they shouldn't (like not holding short side).

    I see myself as a good goalie but not great and can speak to the specific thing i think is needed for me to make the jump. Good goalies at any given time do the following:

    1) be in position for shot

    2) identify the other skaters on ice and recognize the scoring chances

    3) anticipate pass and react

    It's #3 where good gets separated from great. It's not just reacting but reacting with the correct save quickly and consistently. Just last week I let in a goal where a man was behind net on right and threw it in front on the right side. Guy scored off the post to the left. No one blamed me. I recognized the pass opportunity and reacted but I tried to butterfly slide. a great goalie would have reacted with stack pad animation because in that situation it was the perfect reaction to make AND they would react with that save animation 9/10 or 10/10 times.

    There are goals that go in that only goalies know are their fault or that they could have done more on.

    Great and elite goalies are in position for the shot, anticipating the next pass AND already know what they are going to try and save it with.
     
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  14. Mindhunter114

    Mindhunter114 Well-Known Member

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    There's also goalies who didn't sacrifice enough curry chicken to Rammer's alter and get EAed. There isn't much difference in a G game to game that saves 79% vs 82% other than the team in front of them. luck from the game and skill of the 5 skaters determines vezinas. no offense to anyone but i haven't seen a stamtoast or jmoney in a while. biggest opinion i have is a 79% 500k G will always be more beneficial to a team than an 81% 1.25
     
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  15. Brisan x6

    Brisan x6 LG FIFA Director of Operations

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    Pretty simple.

    Make the saves you should and come up big when it’s needed. Sometimes your team will let you down and give up too many chances.
     
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  16. Too Much Twoco

    Too Much Twoco Well-Known Member

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    This really is the simplified version. Good goalies will make the saves they should barring EA shenanigans with animations. The great ones are going to make one or two extra saves a game consistently that a good goalie wouldn't. Put that great goalie on a good team where they only give up 1 to 2 of those chances a game and you have a goalie giving up well under 2 goals a game.
     
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  17. TheGreech

    TheGreech Well-Known Member

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    It comes down to one thing and one thing only. Can you make the biggest saves when everything is on the line? Although I'm a psycho when it comes to my stats deep down I know that they dont mean shit. A great goalie asks for the hardest games and no matter how outgunned their team is, they change the tide of a whole season or playoff run by making one huge future altering save.

    The same can be said for skaters imo. When the pressure is on I dont want the league leader in points. I want the guy who finds the twine to tie the game with 10 minutes left in game 4 when your team is about to get swept. I want the defenseman who intercepts that late game back door one-T when the goalie cant recover from the previous shot.

    I want the guys on my team who dont back down when the pressure is on. They are the ones who build serious chemistry during the playoffs and end up being your close chel friends no matter where the following seasons take you.

    Those are the guys who win cups.
     
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  18. Darcy Kuemper

    Darcy Kuemper Knob Jockey

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    Beer = great goaltending
     
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  19. Big Wet May

    Big Wet May Well Known Month

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    I fully agree with this statement
     
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  20. K11LA K 915

    K11LA K 915 The Golden Bull

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