Stats Help - Please

Discussion in 'Leaguegaming American Hockey League (LGAHL)' started by xCROSBYx l87l, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. l Nexility l

    l Nexility l I didn't finish high school

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    2,701
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ratings:
    +745 / 37 / -50
    Ok I'm just going to go ahead and get right to it here.

    I do not have the capability to send out a mass PM and to anybody that is not interested, I apologize for taking up room in the forums for shows and power rankings etc. but this is the only way to reach the majority of you.

    Here on LG we have great staff and wonderful people running this league but they do not have the time to do what I am proposing - that being said, I need about 10-20 people (or even more though I'm not really expecting 5 people to donate their time) to help me go through stats.

    This would hopefully, in time, lead the league in a direction toward more 'advanced' stats. I'm talking real life stuff like PDO, Fenwick and some GVT but also something that can be exclusive to LG such as Salary Estimation, Trade Value and more like what's a player's personal special teams record i.e it could show that when I play my team is 3/13 on the PP and so much more.

    I understand that this is a lot to ask but I would take on most of the work and you would only be needed for an hour or less every weekend. Please if anyone is indeed interested, message me and I'll get back to you.

    I wish I could pay but unfortunately selling my body to rich men hasn't been as profitable as I imagined. Thank you for your time.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Informative Informative x 2
    No Streaming Account
  2. macros73

    macros73 Just This Guy

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,116
    Trophy Points:
    1,991
    Ratings:
    +2,445 / 212 / -265
    Before doing this, you should sit down with a few people and sketch out what the underlying data is for everything you want to calculate. Then you can put it together in a document and ask Tris to make it available via web service. From there it'll be much easier to calculate/mix/match whatever you want to do without as much manual compilation.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    No Streaming Account
  3. DwnSyndromeDAV3

    DwnSyndromeDAV3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014
    Messages:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    701
    Ratings:
    +186 / 15 / -15
    Im working 7 days a week but if ya need anything from me i can try and find the time for ya. Always looking to help
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Offline
    Lightxdownydav3
  4. l Nexility l

    l Nexility l I didn't finish high school

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2013
    Messages:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    2,701
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ratings:
    +745 / 37 / -50
    I was also thinking that but I also don’t want to put more load on Tris but yea I’ve definitely thought of that. Thank you
     
    No Streaming Account
  5. macros73

    macros73 Just This Guy

    Joined:
    May 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,116
    Trophy Points:
    1,991
    Ratings:
    +2,445 / 212 / -265
    Long-term I think a stats API could reduce load on Tris because people could whip up any advanced metrics or views they wanted downstream without bugging him further.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    No Streaming Account
  6. Axey19

    Axey19 Krawch's Uncle.

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    2,221
    Location:
    Cape Breton, NS
    Ratings:
    +181 / 26 / -14
    I also would like to see a stat of touches a player has per giveaway. I think it would tell a huge part of the story of a player.

    Impossible to track unless EA inserts it or someone watches a million streams.
     
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
    In World of CHEL
    No Streaming Account
  7. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    562
    Discord:
    BottomlessPit#0959
    Trophy Points:
    791
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ratings:
    +255 / 15 / -9
    I'm willing to discuss this and contribute some….after discussing it further. I do have to buy a new headset first (next week likely).



    However, what I'd propose right off the bat is that you need to start smaller with a sample division to make sure the target & sample data are what is needed/wanted ….and that the stats are accurate and work.

    Rather than start with 10 people max. Start with a division, 8 teams. Ideally you would want 1 person from each team + yourself and maybe 1 other lead. This distributes the load. However, I'd say you can manage with 5: yourself + 4 others gathering data for 2 teams per night. (Put it into a matching schedule so that there's no overlaps, example: Bruins vs Checkers. You don't want 2 people covering the same game).

    Next, use the existing 2-3 weeks of this season's data and put it into an excel sheet. Of course any 'new' stats or calculations will have to be figured out before it gets added to a spreadsheet.

    Once 1 stat works, expand to either A: other divisions, or B: previous seasons stats.

    You then have a choice if the stat proves to work, A: then put it into an API and provide to Tris10, Brodie for review, or B: repeat the whole process until you have 5 or 10 or more stats to present together in an API.

    2 biggest hurdles you face:
    1 - expect anything that the LG or EA API does not already gathered to be denied, or to take a VERY long time as getting access to any data from EA automatically takes time. Lots and lots of time.
    2 - using already existing gathered data, with new calculations: you have to get the sample data, prove the calculations work, & then convince Brodie & Tris10 & the community that the added/increased cpu time or upload/download bandwidth costs are worth all the $$ and time investments

    ...I hope some, or all, of this proves useful. hmu if you wish to discuss further
     
    Offline
    Bottomless_Pit
  8. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    562
    Discord:
    BottomlessPit#0959
    Trophy Points:
    791
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ratings:
    +255 / 15 / -9
    Personally I would like to see more advanced Goalie stats. Has been on my mind for a while, but I don't know exactly what kind of data might be available for use. Examples: Breakaway and Penalty shot stats. Stats for a G 3v3, 3v4, 3v5. Sounds like only in my dreams but: stats for Glove saves v Pad saves v Blocker saves, stick saves. Saves in butterfly, standing, desperation. Goals allowed 5 hole, 4 hole, 3 hole, 2 hole, 1 hole. Goals allowed while pulled for the extra man. Goalie stats for 5 v 6 (during delayed penalties)

    etc
     
    Offline
    Bottomless_Pit
  9. ScottLAX18

    ScottLAX18 No Look Top Cook 68

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    127
    Trophy Points:
    761
    Location:
    The Dub
    Ratings:
    +84 / 9 / -9
    As a data analyst I feel this would be extremely hard to do. I think it would be great but with the limited stats EA already gives us it would require everyone in the league to stream their games, have someone assigned to watching the game, and actively watching the game. Also the projected salary would have to be researched and take tons of time. You’d have to go through every single person in the league and compare their previous seasons’ stats to their following seasons’ contract and come up with a formula that calculates this contract by performance. It’s also tough to do this because you do have Owners bidding up people just for fun, guys bidding on their friends, and a ton of other outside variables that go into the salary. I just think it wouldn’t be possible to do a lot of the things you’re looking to do because of the limited stats and not everyone streams their games. For example PDO is measured at even strength and, unless the game is streamed, we have no idea the even strength saves a goalie makes. This also applies to Fenwick (Shots on goal and missed shots on net) and GVT. I like the idea of getting these stats but it seems impossible to get them.
     
    Offline
    ScottLAX18
  10. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    562
    Discord:
    BottomlessPit#0959
    Trophy Points:
    791
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ratings:
    +255 / 15 / -9
    Totally agreed for a number of real world stats we don't currently see here. However, I do feel we can get more 'calculated' stats out of those which we are already getting.

    Unfortunately, it takes hdd space, CPU time and more data transfer. What all this means to Tris19 is more $$ that needs yo be raised or reallocating what is available which means having to compensate by taking something away.

    If anything is to be done then we have to put the effort in firsthand show results plus prove that the community wants this data.
     
    Offline
    Bottomless_Pit
  11. swiss97

    swiss97 Pepsi Guy

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Messages:
    475
    Trophy Points:
    2,321
    Location:
    Philly/ South Jersey
    Ratings:
    +624 / 23 / -25
    GG fucking nerds;). In all seriousness, good luck with that. Advanced stats would be a great added perk to the site but with the lack of stats already, it might be fruitless endeavor.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Offline
    97swiss
  12. Waxibono

    Waxibono Most Hated

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    362
    Trophy Points:
    3,601
    Location:
    Philly
    Ratings:
    +548 / 51 / -54
    Reviving this because I was about to ask the same thing. The action tracker and the net chart give a good bit that we could take from if teams can screenshot the action summary for all 3 periods. Considering I love creating and writing about I'd definitely be willing to help, with at least the action summary we can generate xG% heat maps and deisgnate high danger chances etc. Its FAR FROM PERFECT but it's a step in the right direction
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    No Streaming Account
  13. Dangles4days

    Dangles4days YouTube Danglez Washington

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Messages:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    991
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ratings:
    +48 / 60 / -8
    I'd like to see the player ratings incorporated into the game. It would make things a lot easier to discover the better players and goalies on bad teams.

    I've seen games where teams get blown out and you'll have 4 guys with below 50% defensive rating and 1 guy will have 100%. If @Bottomless Pit is all about his defense like I am I'm sure he'd agree. Or even goalies like @Concerned Cad and @Powell65x who also tried to stand on their head this season on one of the worst teams.

    At the end of the game the player summary doesn't lie it knows who was out of position, who turned it over too many times, and who was at fault when a goal was scored. Please give us defenseman and goalies something to look forward to other than team related stats. By LGS stats sytem Carey Price and Shea Webber would both be "bench freezers".
     
    • Get Good Get Good x 1
    No Streaming Account
  14. DaSteelerz

    DaSteelerz More than just cool on the internet

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ratings:
    +98 / 6 / -4
    show up to your games thx
     
    • Like Like x 1
    No Streaming Account
  15. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    562
    Discord:
    BottomlessPit#0959
    Trophy Points:
    791
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ratings:
    +255 / 15 / -9
    ...I s'pose I better play my position if I want my stats to improve...

    ...btw....ratings in no way show any form of accuracy considering non-lg games also affect cr
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    Offline
    Bottomless_Pit
  16. Dangles4days

    Dangles4days YouTube Danglez Washington

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Messages:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    991
    Location:
    Michigan
    Ratings:
    +48 / 60 / -8
    Umm I wasn't taking a shot at you but maybe you took it that way. Sorry the quote under your name threw me off a bit and I assumed you play defense.

    I'm gonna have to disagree with you about the player summary ratings. I'll agree with you on the cr but I wasn't talking about that.

    I primarily play defense and occasionally play goalie. I see your a goalie so I get that you may feel a little different about it, but before you go telling me to get good again hear me out.

    The game has coaching feedbacks and will guide you with good advice most of the time. If you have any common sense you'll know which is good which is bad. It also shows you where to be positionally on the ice. For a defenseman this is helpful. If you stay in the green box and help protect the net by being in position your rating goes up. If you get caught out if position chasing the puck in the corner or behind the net and a goal gets scored where your supposed to be it goes down.

    Same things can be said about goalie. Except nobody truly plays goalie like an actual goalie. Nobody steps outside of their crease and actually comes out to cut off the angles like goalies would in real life. Play vs CPU goalies in hut or vs and watch how far they come out to challenge a shot... This is why one timers are so effective. Now if you go play eashl you'll see majority of the goalies standing in the middle and never come outsid of their crease.

    Just try playing goalie like you would in real life or like the computer plays and watch your positioning go up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
    No Streaming Account
  17. Bottomless Pit

    Bottomless Pit I'm all about defense & shutting down the offense.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    562
    Discord:
    BottomlessPit#0959
    Trophy Points:
    791
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ratings:
    +255 / 15 / -9
    1st ...I use to be def. 2nd... most def can't adapt quick enough to play a strong def and NOT stay in the same zone through the whole game. I could but it threw everyone off.

    Naw ..nothing personal taken. It was more of a joke gone wrong.

    As for coaching rating...I would agree...except that in 18 it doesn't take into consideration the other player's in your team positioning or rotating to cover positions for example. Yes, you have your primary role and the coaching feedback would be good if everyone only ever stuck to their zones....but if you are rd and a play causes you and LD to swap...and they end up scoring on the right where the ld should be playing your role...then it's your coach that gets on you, not his.

    As for playing G....I think I am one of the most real-life like Gs in the game...but have much room for improvement. Unfortunately the game & G animations haven't been designed in a way that we can make some of the impossible saves that are made by god-like Gs in real life. We also can't back skate or move around with the ease that a G should have. Clearly we shouldn't be able to skate like Toews, Taveres, Crosby, Ovechkin or any other big name you wonder why I missed.....but we should not be sniped short/far side 1v1 on a breakaway every time because the game won't let us cover it quick enough or won't let us do what we really want to do to match speed or cover the shot.
     
    Offline
    Bottomless_Pit