Season 15 Released Information!

Even though your statement is false Replay, I would rather play in the least populated league and it be a gentleman's league than play in the most competitive and have to constantly deal with pricks. You don't have to be an arrogant asshole to be good. In fact, it generally is quite the opposite, they are just usually in denial.

 

lol shut down the chatbox :wink:

 

Don't feel like replying on my iPad, too long. Send me a party invite sometime if you want me to explain what I meant. I think you definitely took my comments the wrong way and you need to relax a little because you ran off with what I said.

 

What a *.

 

Say this everytime someone calls you on something. lol

 

Browsing through these forums, I'm impressed with pretty much everything I see Ozzy say. He definitely gives the impression of someone who knows how to make decisions wisely, which I consider the most important trait for someone leading an organization like this. He also seems to understand how leagues work. I had a similar impression for PHJ in the VHL, and I'm not surprised that him stepping down was where the VHL increasingly turned downhill.
Seeing ReplayKev argue twice tonight, I find he argues out of his ass. That is, he he seems to form opinions based on incomplete knowledge and understanding, and defend them without thinking about whether he can or should do so.
So.... I'm gonna do my thing and argue the crap out of ReplayKev.



Kev, there are several meanings for the competitiveness of a league, and it's not clear what you mean.

The most sensible meaning is the competitiveness of a league as a competition between teams. That's the same as the competitiveness of a game: it describes whether the game is a contest. For example, a game (or shift) IRL between a first line and a fourth line is not likely to be competitive because the skill difference is probably large. A league like this is almost always going to be competitive, because drafting creates parity between teams. The fact that it's a gentleman league doesn't play into it at all directly, and the indirect effect is small (and generally desirable).

Another meaning is whether the games are competitive in the same sense. Games between lines of the same depth (1st vs 1st, 3rd vs 3rd, etc) are going to be competitive because of the draft. The question is whether games between different line depths are still competitive. One purpose of tiering leagues is to shrink the skill gap between lines. Also, most of the time, it's in each team's interest to avoid situations where their lines are on the wrong end of a noncompetitive game because they don't want to ruin morale. So it naturally won't be a widespread problem even if the line skill gap is large. This is the most relevant meaning to your complaint about league size because smaller leagues with more tiers will result in smaller skill gaps and fewer noncompetitive games. However, tweaking that is tradeoff against other qualities of the league.

You also might be referring to competitiveness as whether everyone is really trying to win (as opposed to playing "just for fun"). It'd be pretty naive to think a gentleman's league gets in the way of that.

You might mean competitiveness as in desire to be the best. The only way a gentleman's league gets in the way of that is if people want to play in an ungentlemanly like fashion. For example, rumor is 9th wonder ppl were kicked from canam for glitching. Losing out on that kind of "competitiveness" doesn't reduce the competitiveness of the league. People here can still want to be the best, but at playing the game as they believe it should be played. If someone's competitive nature doesn't care about about that aspect, then sure, they won't be satisfied with this league, but odds are this league won't be missing them.
Personally (and I presume for most level headed individuals in these leagues), I want to be the best I can, but I'm measuring myself players who play the game right, and I don't really care in terms of ambition if a dirty player can be better than me. I don't consider them "top players." However, I'm competitive and I do care if I'm playing a clean game while they're playing another(, dirty) game, and that's why a gentleman's league is the way to go. So it's not a choice between competitive or not, it's a choice between gentleman's game or not.


Your point about playing with players of lower skill level isn't so simple. Playing with less skilled players doesn't interfere with competitiveness. Pavel Datsyuk might be a significantly better player than everyone around him, but he still has to compete hard to win. Being more or less skilled than others is part of the game of hockey.
On the other hand, playing with players at a higher level allows you to play at a higher level as a team, just as playing against tougher teams requires to play at that higher level. That's why bringing in as much talent as you can is better for the league. But again, being a gentleman's league doesn't really play in. Those players who don't fit into a gentleman's league aren't the players people in a gentleman's league want to play with or against. Anyway, as the league grows, the competition at the top naturally gets better (and at the bottom gets worse) and the people who are seeking that need to adapt to the rules if they want to get in.

 

Maybe I phrased my response wrong. I used the word competitive meaning that everyone for the most part is in the same area of skill level obviously some better than others. This may sound cocky and egotistical but all the games I've played in except 2 or 3 have been boring as hell due to playing against what seems like otp players who actually play there position. What I was trying to say was if you wanted a lot of the top talent in the game (assuming you want this site to be the best, which is also a relative term) then it will be hard to maintain the gentlemans part. Now don't get me wrong this site and it's features are by far better than any other site, and I can't speak for the top end players coming over, but I would think they would want to play against the best as well and not beat up on random lower skilled players. I understand the draft in theory will spread the talent out to all the teams but looking at the owners this year I don't recognize some of them which makes me think they might not know who a lot of the good guys are coming from other leagues or that have been around on top clubs for awhile which makes me worry that a few teams will pick guys they know with lesser skill leveled players and get beat up on come regular season. I understand I troll on this site all the time and most people here don't like me, and honestly I could care less, but don't discredit my opinion as I would like to see this league grow into my opinion of the best 6s site.

 

gentleman's league <> crap players

You are equating respectful players with bad ones. No idea how you come to that conclusion but that is a fallacy.

 

Kev hangs out with the wrong crowd obviously because only kids who NEED IT can be good.

 

There's no secret that a lot of "top players" come along with their egos. That's fine. I believe this is what Kev is trying to get across. There are plenty of top players who are respectful, but just don't expect everyone to be drama-free, per se, if this league begins to attract top players. I believe Ozzy, Plymmy and other league staff will have no problems enforcing community guidelines and procedures to create a respectful environment, but we're kidding ourselves if we don't think this league may attract some more players who think quite highly of themselves and like to put down others.

 

Yes I agree - the best should play against the best. And how does that happen?

1. We have an even draft where the people who are picking the players (the owners) all have a general idea of how good the players available are. How does this happen?

2. The pool of players have all either played in THIS LEAGUE in previous seasons (S14) in a certain number of games (12) and have recorded stats to prove so - OR - have scouted with a certain number of current owners [8]to display their skills.

It is both part-player and part-owner responsibility for these "superstar" players who are currently ineligible to get drafted.

So new players: scout with owners, get AHL games (this season) going, get some stats recorded and these guys will become eligible. Play in your scouting games with some integrity - don't sand-bag so you can get your minimums in, play honestly so everyone knows how good you are. Don't bail on your team if they're doing bad - it just gives you a bad reputation.

And owners: do your own scouting. Tris has been working hard so you can create drop-in games right on the league-page. If you're too lazy to be scouting (sure it isn't required, but if you know about these great players then why aren't you scouting them), then why did you sign up? Once you run through the draft, match your talent with your opponents. Why waste your #1 line on their #4

and KEV: Don't think that we (the league) do not want the games to be entertaining/competitive, we do. But in order for that to happen EVERYONE has to have a fair shot at the top talent. We can't just make exceptions for people joining because one or two people say so. Players can go ahead and thing highly of themselves all day, but if they are too ignorant to TRY to follow the rules that are setup then we will never know. The best players (that are eligible) will be drafted first, and with the league expanding at a pretty good rate that means we are going to have almost 2x as many players as there are NHL spots available, which in turn should mean the best available players will be playing in the NHL. If the players don't go through the effort in making themselves available then that is their (the players') fault - if the owners don't go through the effort of scouting these players, then that is their (the owners') fault. In no way do our rules prohibit skill from coming in and playing - only ignorance/laziness (with the exception of late-signups)

 

Well said sir.

 

Build the best site you can, stay true to your vision and stand-up for what you believe in. If the best players can't be better gentleman or learn to work within the framework of the site then, tough shit. You don't build something to appeal to the best players, you build the best thing you can which in turn should appeal to the best players.

IF the best players want to run around like kids, disrespect members or staff or act like douchebags in game, then they really aren't the best players. The best players bring it, play tough, respect rules, handle adversity, handle themselves like adults and realize the site, community and league is bigger then they will ever be on their own. They contribute to the growth and development of a league and accept what the league asks for. These players make leagues tick, make games fun and competitive. Too many of these BEST PLAYERS wont play with lesser skilled players as they feel they are entitled to play with better people, then go start a club.

Leagues are to meet people, play with different guys, be part of a team, have fun, get more out of the game then just the buttons. It is community based and the stronger, more committed, more firm the league is with there policies the more respect it will earn and in time all the best players will realize its worth playing here. Then and maybe then won't act like douches.

Dont cater to the best, build the best and the rest will fall into place overtime.

 

Kev your opinion of the best 6s site has is your own and you need to understand that and stop trying to force it on others.

If you want to understand why your concerns aren't the problem you think they are, then put your brain into gear and read my post again. The only way the "best" (read: egotistical, because that's really not all the best players) can avoid a gentleman league is by making their own 30 person circle jerk league. Guess what, it happens only once a year (and it doesn't even get the best players)

 

EEF, I need it just as much as Murph needed that cup last season.

to i4mb, i agree with everything you said and in a perfect world that would be best, but unfortunately I can see players (and have heard of players this season) who purposely threw scouting games to look bad so they can get drafted on their friends team. I think that is inevitable to a point and the best defense to that would be selecting owners who know the talent and have been around for a good period of time.

to clarke, i don't see anywhere where i said to "cater" to the top players. I said it would be hard to have a gentleman's league and the most competitive, which is my opinion and the league might have to give up some leverage on one or the other. My point was that I can't see this being the "best and most competitive site", which once again is a relative term, without loosening up the guidelines for this so called gentleman's league. Whether that be top players or terrible AHL players it doesn't matter. Just like Karly said when you build a good league and the better players notice and start coming over they are going to bring their ego with them which is going to lead to some trash talk.

to ichi, i know it is my opinion which is why i say in just about all my posts is that it is my opinion, and well as say it is a relative term, meaning its different person by person.

 

I don't see why we should cater to a small number of players who want to bypass the system, no matter their skill level. For one, that would be unfair to the people who put in their time to play their AHL and/or scouting games. The new pickup feature has made it super easy to get in your scouting games, so it seems to me that these supposedly elite players want the great payoff that this league offers, but only if we give it to them on a silver platter. The migrating players who are respectful of both their fellow players and the league will do the work needed to be eligible for the draft, while the other migrants, no matter how good they may be, will probably be the type who rage over a video game that was designed to be fun. If you aren't having fun, don't yell at your teammates; if they make a mistake, give them constructive criticism rather than calling them a bitch or something of the sort. The new players that don't want to put in their time seem like the type who complain about their teammates when their teammates just want to have fun. Sure, a competitive league is fun, but you shouldn't throw away respect in favor of skill. If you want to play without putting in games, then you want a free lunch. And we all know that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

 

Sorry Replay, wasn't actually quoting you or referencing your post, it more just makin a blanket statement. Catering, bending rules, making exceptions are really all one in the same to me.

However I will address 2 points in your post above.

"I said it would be hard to have a gentleman's league and the most competitive, which is my opinion and the league might have to give up some leverage on one or the other." You are so right, it is hard, will be hard and isn't easy to pull off, still doesn't mean you don't strive towards it or make an effort. Not that that's what your saying, but the reason its hard is why no one else has done it, but the 1st one that does will be the premier league.

"My point was that I can't see this being the "best and most competitive site", which once again is a relative term, without loosening up the guidelines for this so called gentleman's league." This I think is what people are getting upset about or reacting to. This is CATERING, because if we want the best players we have to be lenient towards BS or loosen guidelines because good players wont follow them? How about if the best players want to be on the best site, then they are the ones who conform not the league.

If the better players see this league and want to come over then we are already winning because we have what they want, so why bend and allow it to go to shit for the sake of maybe a few bruised egos?

 

It isn't a secret that players throw scouting games - but it is damn hard to prove. i'm just making it known that those who do that are the ones who destroy leagues (in general), if they didn't already know. In a perfect world we wouldn't need to hand out suspensions to owners/players, but we do. In a perfect world, Tris and the rest of us would be getting paid to do this, but we don't. And in a perfect world, we would all know the exact ranking of all the guys playing on this site and could go off that, but we don't. Maybe you should worry more about getting these top guys scouting, or convince them that playing in the AHL is worth it to make our league better. I know for a fact that many people do not care who they play for as long as the teams are fun to play with, or as long as they are playing games.

To reiterate what Clarke said: "Leagues are to meet people, play with different guys, be part of a team, have fun, get more out of the game then just the buttons." If these guys are all just trying to play on the same team go play EASHL.

 

Clarke, maybe its just me but I find it pathetic how people get so upset over a little chirp on a video game. I am being threatened by a player who will report me/try to get me banned because I said in a prediction thread that Bardy is the only good player on the team and everyone else is bad, or something along those lines. I'm not singling anyone out or calling people names yet i'm still being threatened with this. This is the reason why I have my doubts on people being able to conform to the leagues standards. I'm not saying cater to the players, i'm saying I don't think a lot of players will last long in the league with strict guidelines. So with that the league will have to choose talent or guidelines, and i'm not trying to push my views onto others or say one way is better then the other. And I already know people are going to say not all talent are dbags which is true but we all know some people will get banned over here not being used to the rules. I think I have made my point and don't feel like continuing on and on about this or trying to defend myself. Take it for what it is and lets move on.

 

You have done this a lot and chirp players in the AHL saying you are better than them because you are in the NHL like it actually means something.